On August 15, 2023, SMUG looked at Google Maps, Apple Maps, Google Earth, and My Maps, an offshoot of Google Maps. Each has its strengths and weaknesses.
We also discussed other topics, such as: why it is a terrible idea to disable the security of a new macOS operating system so that it will run on an older machine that it wasn’t designed to support. In brief, you must permanently disable the security features of the new OS to get it to run on older machines that don’t support that OS. You are essentially crippling your machine and making it far more vulnerable, rather than improving things.
In September, we will talk about fonts and font management.
August 15, 2023 video recording of the meeting
Transcript of the meeting
Zoom automatically generated this transcript. No effort has been made to correct spelling, text, subject, or anything else. Zoom does a good job, but occasionally gets strange. The time in the left column is from a 24-hour clock; 18:28:54 translates to 6:28 p.m., Pacific Time, plus 54 seconds.
18:28:54 Let me change that. 18:29:32 Let's see. 18:29:56 Hey, Lauren. How are you this fine day? 18:29:57 Hello. Nice. I think I see your ceiling. 18:30:02 Oh, oh, no, what you're saying is a little cover I made for my camera on my. 18:30:14 For what it's worth, the Mac is one of the few programs that they can't hijack the camera. 18:30:23 Hello. 18:30:20 Because it goes through Apple security. And if you haven't given permission to use it. Nothing can You have to actually authorize permission to use it. 18:30:32 Well, that's good to know. Course I am one of those that has that really old computer so, mine is a late 2,013 model. 18:30:43 Well that one doesn't have a security chip. 18:30:45 Nope. It does not. Then thinking about. 18:30:54 Programs that you can use to put on operating system that isn't intended to be on there. And I've been thinking about that. 18:31:03 You can take them clear up to the latest one. But Okay. 18:31:05 You realize that in order to do that, you have to completely disable. Security. 18:31:12 Just while it's happening. Oh, it's. 18:31:13 Nope, completely, totally disabled security. So it's probably the worst possible choice. 18:31:18 Hello. Okay, well. Darn. 18:31:25 Yeah, I had a friend to, did that. And. He was also computer security person. 18:31:33 And. He was very proud of himself and I said, I bet I can get into your computer with it locked. 18:31:42 Yeah. 18:31:40 And he said, no you can't. And he said, I've got all kinds of security on this and about a minute later. 18:31:46 Yeah. 18:31:48 He, It's very sad. 18:31:53 Okay, well, I thought it seemed like a too good to be true, but, Apparently it's done quite a bit, so. 18:32:01 Yeah. 18:32:06 Did I? 18:32:01 So did you get a chance to try out for, then, that photo pills, that app that I, 18:32:12 Oh, did they? Yeah. 18:32:09 I saw it and they wanted money so I couldn't even do it. Yeah, they they don't even have a free demo. 18:32:27 No. 18:32:16 And so I saw what it said it did, but the write-up was. Marketing it wasn't really specific enough for me to know what it was they meant I'm I'm one of these people who Done. 18:32:33 I don't like advertising that it's just marketing. I prepared having specifics and I could find Not, enough specific to really know what it is that it that it did. 18:32:46 I mean, if 18:32:45 They send. Go, go ahead. 18:32:58 Okay. 18:32:48 If you watch the drug ads that they have during the nightly news you know, they've got these people wandering around in these pastel colored suits singing and dancing along the beach and everything's bright and sunny and then they list the side effects and you know you could die 500 different ways from this pill but it's still bright and sunny. 18:33:09 And then. 18:33:08 Yeah, yeah, yeah, we thought all of them say, yeah, ask your doctor ask your doctor, you know, so we thought about writing them all down and then taking our doctor just as a joke and say, do I need this? 18:33:25 Yep, they send me a photo pill send me at least 2. Training things a month, I would say, and it's, they'll have, people that are specialists in you know this subject to that subject as far as photos concerned and. 18:33:47 And, there, I don't usually watch them photo pills for me. 18:33:54 I really have gotten out of photography much lately. And but it's it's really in depth it's so in depth that it's It's pretty much over my head 18:33:14 Yes, Well, in my case, I have a lot of, I do a lot of photography. 18:34:16 And it's just that in my case, I'm just dubious. 18:34:23 Yeah. 18:34:23 But a lot of the things that people say that they're going to do. And. 18:34:28 Yeah. Hmm. 18:34:35 So II didn't I didn't get enough 18:34:39 Of a feel for what it was talking about to decide that I wanted to actually try that. 18:34:44 Was it expensive do you remember or? Pretty cheap. 18:34:54 We do. 18:34:48 I wasn't that much, but it's. I got several 100 apps. I, do I really want to spend money on a bunch of other apps. 18:34:59 So. 18:34:59 Right, right, yeah. Yep. 18:35:04 And if you're wondering what I'm doing, I'm belatedly making a sign in sheet. 18:35:09 I kind of figured that might be it. 18:35:15 And. 18:35:19 I don't know what it is that I did. But it's not useful. 18:35:24 I didn't expect to. Be too into this session tonight. We were going to go to the music in the park, but at 90 95 is what my temperature, not down to 93 here at the house, but it's a little too hot to be sitting out there. 18:35:42 Kerry Blake Park. 18:35:44 I'm giving up on making a form. 18:35:48 I'm sorry, I keep bothering you. Go ahead and I won't bother you. 18:35:51 I can. 18:35:51 No, it's it's I'm in the words of Star Trek, I'm emotionally compromised right now. 18:35:58 Yeah. 18:35:58 My spouses, it's hard for me too. Keep track of what it is that I'm supposed to be doing. 18:36:06 And apparently I triggered some. Program. 18:36:13 That is doing weird things. 18:36:19 And I need to make it go away. 18:36:31 It's allowing me to draw on the screen and I don't want to draw on the screen. 18:36:42 Stop annotating the screen. Okay. 18:36:51 Yeah, my spouse is not feeling well and I'm a little bit. Distressed. 18:36:58 Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that. 18:37:15 Yeah, mine's 75. Luckily, I got a heat pump that does a fine job. 18:37:22 Keeping it cool in your. 18:37:03 Anyway, we start off with the questions and answers and you probably went. Questions other than how hot is it inside my house right now and apparently the answer is it's 78 so Well, the. 18:37:25 This the thermostat. Is about as far from where I am as possible. And that doesn't help. 18:37:33 So. They might be doing a better job except that it thinks that I must be. Comfy and I'm not. 18:37:41 Yeah. 18:37:43 Any questions that have nothing to do with my thermostat? 18:37:54 No questions? 18:37:56 Well, if there's none, then what kind of? 18:38:02 The. I have a question for everybody else. The Apple came up with a bunch of updates, last week. 18:38:12 And did you update your iPads and your iPhones and Macs and such? I don't 18:38:23 Yes. 18:38:25 The, it, if you, if you want to know what it looks like because they didn't appear on the security update list. 18:38:33 I think it's the Apple usual. Preparing. The regular operating systems to be compatible with whatever is forthcoming. 18:38:43 They usually have a few adjustments so that. They can slide into the new world without. Causing trouble for people who aren't immediately sliding into the new world. 18:38:56 And they didn't seem to be much security content to that. Most recent updates. They seem to be mostly trying to. 18:39:05 Prepare things for what's coming up probably September, October. So I didn't see anything particularly. 18:39:13 Drastic to people who like to speculate on what Apple is going to be introducing. Notice some things like new sizes of screens options if you're a programmer and you go into the code. 18:39:26 There are new sizes of screen options and hints about new cameras and so on and so forth. 18:39:33 . But I tend to discount that because Apple will will include support for things that they're prototyping. 18:39:42 And it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to introduce things. For example, several years ago. 18:39:48 There was elements talking about the possible. Solid state Samsung camera that Apple never adopted. They stuck it in the prototyping code. 18:39:59 Because they had some people who were going to be testing it. But they decided against it and they stuck with Sony. 18:40:06 Sensors in the in Macs and iPhones. So, II constantly get asked. 18:40:19 I probably was asked like a dozen questions this past week about rumors. I tend to discount the rumors. 18:40:23 I'm, I'm not interested because I'm much, I'm much more interested in the hardware that people are actually using rather than fictitious, fictitious hardware that might come along the road. 18:40:36 So if you're interested in rumors, I don't tend to pay that much attention to them. 18:40:41 I pay much more attention to the security rumors, for example. If you have an Intel. 18:40:47 Based Mac. There is a. A vulnerability the outside there with Intel. Processors that allows you to basically 18:41:01 If you have physical access to Windows machine and you have a specially prepared USB drive you can compromise it in about a minute And there's speculation that you could do the same thing on on the Mac side. 18:41:18 And I've been paying quite a bit of attention to that because I do have a couple Intel Macs and the answer is no. 18:41:25 The way in which it works in the Windows world that So, that type of. Software structure doesn't even exist on the Mac side. 18:41:33 So yes, might have the same CPU, but. There's no vector that you can use to get into it. 18:41:40 So I do pay attention to that kind of rumor, but not to. Not to unannounced, product rumors. 18:41:47 I remember when the the Air Pod max that huge headphones across $700. There were rumors that Apple was going to introduce the $700 headphones and I thought that's got to be bogus and when they actually came out I was a little bit surprised. 18:42:07 So sometimes the rumors are true, but. For the most part, that's not something I pay attention to. 18:42:20 How do I have a question? My wife has an M one. Hi, And Several times in the past week while she's watching Netflix streaming video. 18:42:34 It's gotten overly warmed. Never had that happen before. So I did a chat with Apple support people because it's still under. 18:42:44 Apple care or warranty and all. And they asked me a bunch of questions and so on and so forth. 18:42:51 And then. You said, well, since you haven't got a and I'll alert on your phone or I mean on your iPad. 18:42:58 Popping up and saying that your device is too hot. Then it's probably fine. You have any thoughts about that? 18:42:15 Any other questions, comments? Criticisms of Oh Yeah, the, the iPhone, the iPhone, the iPhone and the iPad can get warm. 18:43:12 If the radios get a lot of use. And the radios can get a lot of use because you're using. 18:43:20 Wi-Fi and the Wi-Fi signals is, is weaker than it should be. 18:43:25 Because in that actually causes the radar to use more power rather than less because if it's got a strong signal it doesn't need to keep on asking to be synced up. 18:43:34 And it can also get warm if, if you're in areas with weak. Cell signals if you're out driving your car, for example. 18:43:45 Because It's, it seems antithetical, but yourself, phone works best if Wi-Fi is also active, even if there's no Wi-Fi signal. 18:43:57 And that's because when an occasionally comes up with a Wi-Fi signal. He uses that to help triangulate the GPS and re-sync things and so on and so forth. 18:44:07 And when Kathleen and I were coming across country, when we moved out here from the East Coast. 18:44:12 We were navigating using my iPad. Using Google Maps. And in the middle of the Arizona desert one day it just said, I've had enough. 18:44:22 I'm overheating and turned itself off. But the iPad itself is still fine. 18:44:27 It didn't hurt it. It saw that it was over hot and turned itself off. The inside of the car wasn't hot. 18:44:33 Was the iPad itself and that's because there was really no signal at all. And that night when I was in. 18:44:41 In the hotel I was looking up what could possibly. Have caused that and I found out a trick to. 18:44:50 To Google Maps which I hope to remember to tell people about. Today and that is that you can download a Google map for an area. 18:44:59 It'll download the image files and needs for the wet map. So that as you as you go on a route. 18:45:07 And it doesn't get a Wi-Fi, it doesn't get a signal, it can still have the maps available. 18:45:12 Doesn't need to pull them via what it uses the GPS in the. Phone or the iPad to know where it is and that moves you along even if you don't have a cell signal. 18:45:23 And that among other things reduces the power. Consumption. And it doesn't make the, It doesn't cause the overheating when you're doing that. 18:45:34 That won't help you when you're streaming though, when you're streaming. Usually if it's getting warm, it's because it keeps on trying to. 18:45:39 To either stabilize the signal or keeps on asking for a rethink. There's a When, when you have, They've done a lot of studies because we've been we've been making motion pictures for some time. 18:45:52 The thing that will upset people more in watching a movie than anything else is if the sound is off. If the sound is off by something like an eighth of a second, it'll just drive audiences nuts. 18:46:04 And so when you see something on a newscast and the News reporters in Turkey and the sound isn't synced up with his voice. 18:46:14 It's just very difficult for you to follow a story. So they invented this thing called QOS. 18:46:21 It stands for quality of service. And it's just another type of packet that they send along in an audio stream or a video stream saying, I should be here. 18:46:29 I should be here. I should be here. I should be here. To tell the rest of the packets that are following where the where current reality is as opposed to where the packets might be coming in. 18:46:41 And if it, if the QRS gets too out of sync, that can cause, overheating of the computer. 18:46:52 Okay. 18:46:50 And it also required, and I also will That's where the video will start stuttering because the Mac, the, the software is trying to rethink up. 18:47:02 To. And so we'll start stuttering. Because it's trying to do a rethink and that will cause a reheat as well. 18:47:11 So the fact that it was streaming doesn't surprise me. And it's hard to say whether it was Wi-Fi or cell, cause I don't know if she has a cell in it, but it's usually because of the wireless signal. 18:47:24 It's not necessarily that your wireless signal is, isn't strong. It just means that where she was at that particular time. 18:47:31 Yeah, it was having trouble and so it keeps on it good does a lot more work because it's asking for the same thing over and over and over again. 18:47:39 And you may not actually know it in the video feed itself if it does it fast enough, but. If it can't, then that's when you start to notice that it's stutters. 18:47:49 But it doesn't, it doesn't surprise me that it. That happens and if it gets too hot the iPad will shut itself off your phone will shut itself off. 18:48:00 As well. 18:48:01 It's never got that hot, but I told you this. We last around our last meeting sometime that. 18:48:09 There's something weird going on with the sounds. Signal, Sometimes go dead even though The lights on the modem and the router don't. 18:48:21 Don't show any interruption. 18:48:23 Yeah. That's because the routers have, they say it's different thing is called an ARP. 18:48:32 It's not really a quality of service thing, but routers send out things called arc packets. 18:48:37 And if the. Tcp IP, which is what the internet runs on it. I don't, don't ask what the TCP IP stands for. 18:48:47 They send these packets of information. Each packet has addressing information and then it has content. And then it's got this thing at the end that says I'm the end of this packet. 18:48:57 So it sends out multiple bytes and it says, I'm the start of the packet. 18:49:01 I'm this long. I was sent at this time. I'm packet numbers such and such. 18:49:06 And then at the end after the date, it says I'm the end of the packet. And when they were I received the TCP IP is designed to be received out of order if necessary because it was designed as a protocol that could be used in case of nuclear attack and you wanted to have reliable communication. 18:49:22 So even if you're your message is chopped up into all these pieces, it'll still assemble itself in the proper order because they're all numbered. 18:49:32 And when you're talking with text, which is what they were originally worried about when they came up with this in the 19 sixtys that's fairly easy but when you start adding things that are really big that becomes very difficult. 18:49:45 And what a lot of people don't realize is that video and sound and everything that's sent over the internet is really just text. 18:49:54 So it sends out this stuff in these 8 bit. 8, bit bit bites. And it breaks it up into segments. 18:50:07 It assembles them in these packets that sends out the packets. The packets are numbered. 18:50:10 And then when it comes in, it reassembles them. And if they start to get out of order too much, the routers start sending out these ARP packets. 18:50:20 And I call them C line packets because if you're explaining to something. Just someone you say art packets and they think you're continuing to be a sea lion. 18:50:28 But the art packet says, hey, I'm here, I'm here. And it's basically a signal to the other routers to say, hey, I'm here, pay attention to me. 18:50:38 And then the other packets start talking to each other and get back in sync. And so it's a it's a it's a complex dance. 18:50:45 And the routers can get out of. Out of sorts too and the router will say, I can see things. 18:50:52 I can see other routers. I'm sending art packets back and forth. So I'm fine. 18:50:57 Doesn't mean your data is lying. Because that's due to what whatever Comcast is doing with their with their signal. 18:51:06 So the routers might be able to see each other but but your signal can still be posed. 18:51:13 It's complicated, but. Yeah. I don't even want to speculate on why. 18:51:22 Some of this stuff from Wave works the way that it does. I spend a lot of my time being very disgusted with them. 18:51:30 I'm a wave subscriber as well. And, they're just things that they do that are unbelievably stupid. 18:51:37 For example, One of the things that they do. It's common to for a lot of spammers to send out a bunch with a to send out email with a bunch of blind CCs. 18:51:48 That about once a week. Wave decides that whatever, for whatever reason, any message you send out that's got multiple blind CCs, even if it's legitimate. 18:51:58 It'll just bounce them all. So if you send it to a wave address, it'll just bounce them all. 18:52:03 So sometimes when I sound out the a smug, messages. We've got about 1520 people who only have a wave address. 18:52:11 I'll send it out to everybody and everybody gets it except for the wave. Subscribers and it bounces every single one of them. 18:52:18 There are legitimate addresses coming from a legitimate address. I'm even a wave subscriber, but it bounces every single last one of them. 18:52:26 And that's, it's hard not to say that's just utter incompetence. 18:52:31 I've run into that. With in other states. When I sent out something with blind CC. 18:52:39 You know, a list of, I've run into the same thing. With people who have the equivalent of a wave address with an ISP and other states. 18:52:49 Which will it'll just bounce it'll either bounce him or what's worse in my opinion is it'll just automatically shuffle them into the junk. 18:52:58 Or the spam folder and they'll never know they have it because most people don't ever look at those folders. 18:53:00 Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I. 18:53:09 I'm not, I'm not happy about it, but I don't really have any. 18:53:14 There's nothing I can do about it. 18:53:16 Yeah, well I was just I was hoping that No bad overheating problem that happened because We're hoping to trade that back in to get an M. 18:53:26 3 iPad here on the Assuming they come out with those this fall. I didn't want it to melt before then. 18:53:32 It probably won't. It's probably just that it was spending a lot of time. Requesting the same information over and over and over again. 18:53:41 And. 18:53:44 And Lawrence says the reason it overheated is because you're watching those. South Korean equivalent of the Hallmark channel if you just quit doing that it'll be fine 18:53:55 Yeah. 18:53:56 Okay. 18:53:55 Yeah. 18:54:01 Speaking which this 18:54:01 Or something, something like that. 18:54:04 My spouse was in, is in the hospital right now and she. Was in the ER until like 3 in the morning. 18:54:15 And she was asking, he says, why aren't you in bed? And I said, I'm watching the. 18:54:20 Sweden, Spain game in. New Zealand and she said II don't care. You go to bed, but you know. 18:54:29 Yeah. 18:54:32 It was it was difficult for me to go to sleep and she was in the air. So. 18:54:40 Well, I hope he's doing better today. 18:54:40 Right. She's still in hospital, so. 18:54:52 Nothing I can do other than. Okay. Anyway, do we have computer questions? Not evolving wave which tends to sometimes lead to me using bad language. 18:55:06 I sent you a suggestion about fonts. Did you get that? 18:55:14 I don't think I've seen that. Okay. 18:55:16 Well, it was a suggestion for a meeting topic. Involving front management on the Mac and on the iPad on iPhone. 18:55:24 I don't, I don't see that. I'm looking at my email. I don't see. 18:55:30 Anything else? 18:55:33 Did you send that today? 18:55:35 No, yesterday or the day before. 18:55:39 Hello. 18:55:39 They might have been, I might have replied to your announcement about. The meeting. 18:55:45 Yeah, I don't. 18:55:48 Anyway, it doesn't really matter. Let's but I had that idea and wanted to send it because You know in the days when you could buy find when Adobe was a font foundry electronic when you could buy fonts and so forth. 18:56:02 Those were all type one postscript, I think. And then, you know, so I invested. 18:56:09 Some money and buying files from them, some of which I really like like they had a Adobe, I'm an expert. 18:56:19 Family which had all kind of cool stuff in it. But then, you know, now nobody uses Type One. 18:56:26 It won't work on the new Mac and so on as far as I could tell. And They can. 18:56:29 Oh yes, they can. Ii still use type one fonts on the machine in front of me. 18:56:37 What is. Complicated though is that Adobe says that they're future updates to. 18:56:49 Postscript will not support type one fonts. So when that. Takes place that will present some problems because The Mac, you don't see it, but a lot of the Mac interface that you see on the screen is actually drawn with postscript. 18:57:05 Apple has it. Licensed from Adobe. And if Adobe stops, stop supporting type one fonts, that will definitely. 18:57:15 Be, a problem, but no, the, there's a font that I like to use in a lot of announcements and such called which is a. 18:57:30 Serif font that looks a lot, sort of like Garamong, but the serifs have a slight. 18:57:35 Hint of being a brush dog just like the. Painter, hitherto shy, so it doesn't look as clunky as a lot of those things that are supposed to look Japanese. 18:57:44 He's just kind of a int. And it was developed for a book on and I really like it and I'm going to have to buy the. 18:57:55 The new, I can't remember the the format that Adobe is using right now. 18:58:01 Really nobody else at me that makes that font. So I'm just gonna have to buy it at some point. 18:58:07 But that problem hasn't existed yet. But in terms of how to get them to show up. It is kind of a pain. 18:58:15 For example, like when I use Adobe Illustrator, Adobe Illustrator can't see the fact that I have. 18:58:24 It can't see that I have it installed, but Microsoft Word can. And that just is. 18:58:33 Yeah, I lost a number of clients because I Yeah, I got him from like independent type foundry people. 18:58:43 And can't find him. I mean, I can't find you. I would, I'd buy whatever would work. 18:58:49 Without going through gymnastics to make it work, but I can't find any of them anymore. 18:58:56 Yeah. 18:58:59 It was annoying that I bought all that stuff from Adobe. And then you know they they change formats or whatever and I They don't, I bought them, but when they updated them, I would have to buy them again. 18:59:12 Yeah. 18:59:13 You know, instead of like. Paying some lesser fee for an update. 18:59:19 Yeah. Understand the fonts are getting kind of funky in terms of. Buying fonts anyway because so many people out there will just get free fonts or they'll get like you know 5,000 funds for 10 bucks. 18:59:39 You can go into the app store, Apple App Store and get just bundles of fonts. 18:59:43 And the problem with them is a lot of them are very poorly made, but you don't know that. 18:59:48 Until you're trying to do something and you really want the curtain to be just right and you find out that a overprint or do other stupid things. 18:59:56 This one, friend of mine, he, has this really, really bad font. 19:00:02 That he like and just badly made font that that makes blots and so on so forth and he uses it to write me fake ransom notes when he's trying to get my attention and I haven't been paying attention. 19:00:16 Send me fake brands and notes using this. Font that basically says, pay attention. 19:00:23 You know, one of the apples first fonts was, I can't remember what it was called, but that's what it was. 19:00:28 Remember that? It was a ransom note like. 19:00:29 Yes. I think that was San Francisco. 19:00:34 Okay. 19:00:34 Maybe. Anyway, and that in the note that I sent you, I included a link to an article. 19:00:40 Which I think was on Apple News. I can't remember Colt of Mac maybe. And it mentioned some program. 19:00:47 Like I font or I could I'll find it. Which is something that would help install fonts. 19:00:55 Like the Google finds, you know, that are in And, if you use Google Docs. 19:01:04 Oh, Apple has a really good font. Usually it's built in, but there are some other ones as well. 19:01:09 I don't know if it's about. IPhone but II think that's a good topic but I don't see the email. 19:01:18 Oh, find it and resend it to you. 19:01:18 So. Yeah, sorry about that. And it's 70'clock. 19:01:27 Hello, Madam President. 19:01:27 Did you make a sign in? 19:01:30 Hello there. Welcome everybody. Boy, we have a really small group today. 19:01:37 Yeah, I think everybody melted. 19:01:39 Oh, welcome everybody. I hope you're staying nice and cool. And. 19:01:50 There's nothing to report for the Treasury, nothing in nothing out. So it's state status quo. 19:01:57 I forgot to ask during the Q&A. Lawrence, can you tell me what is the advantage? 19:02:06 Or so when you're using. Photos on the phone. You can now click on a picture and hold a little bit and you can copy and it'll just take the people out. 19:02:20 Yes. 19:02:21 Can you tell me what the benefit is and when you say copy, where does a copy to? 19:02:27 It's not actually copying, it's doing a masking. And what it's doing is it takes whatever you whatever you're holding down, it takes that to be the subject and it masks out the rest. 19:02:39 And a mask is. It's from, the term comes from how used to develop film. 19:02:45 When you had black and white film and you've and you were filming it, you were developing a luck dark room. 19:02:47 Okay. 19:02:49 You develop things. There's there's a sheet of paper, you've shined it through this glass, and by adjusting the amount of light going through various parts of the. 19:03:00 Of the glass, you can either. Develop parts of the film are underdeveloped parts of the film and quite often to do this they would do this by using a little piece of cardboard or something then they. 19:03:13 Use it to redefine how much. Light as striking the paper. But if they're, if you wanted to. 19:03:20 If you wanted to highlight something and get rid of the rest of it, they would cut out a shape. 19:03:26 And they put that over the film either over the film to expose the cutout or they put it over the part that they wanted to. 19:03:35 Keep from being exposed and do the rest of it. That's how you see how they used to do. 19:03:43 Special effects in the pre-computer days is they would go frame by frame by frame and they mask out a part of the screen and they put it a rocket ship in there and then they move it very gently every frame and it used to be incredibly tedious and now you can do that on your iPhone. 19:04:03 So it's really, really cool, but it's called masking. And it's not really. 19:04:08 Copying that, you're selecting it and saying mass this, and then you have to paste it into something else in order to create a new picture. 19:04:16 And you may give an example of like where you would paste something like that. 19:04:20 Well, II did that a couple weeks as a couple months ago when I was talking about cheap photo editing. 19:04:28 And I was using previews to do that because you can do the same thing in preview. So you copy out the subject of one thing and then you paste it into something else and when it comes in it's transmit the background is transparent so you can have a picture you can have a statue of a dinosaur and then a picture of a three-year-old and put it on top of the dinosaur, now you have 19:04:51 a three-year-old riding a dinosaur. So it's, it's. 19:04:54 It's a practical thing to do, but it's also Sometimes if you just don't want is you see your mother right now look at the background around here. 19:05:06 It's perfectly white. That'd be great for something like a. Passport photo. 19:05:13 Well you can do that now even instead you ignore the rest of the house you can just take her photo get rid of the the wooden frame and for the door and so on so forth and just have that as a passport photo except that the passport company the state department doesn't like that because at that point you're altering. 19:05:33 They image and they won't accept altered film. But that's the sort of thing that you can do with a mask so that you just focus on one thing and not have a bunch of clutter and it's quite popular right now because you're there you have a picture of you and your boyfriend or you dump that boyfriend but you still like this picture of you in front of the Eiffel Tower. 19:05:53 So you can, you're in front of the Eiffel Tower and just make the boyfriend disappear. 19:05:55 Got it. Okay. Okay. 19:06:02 But it's called masking and it's supported on the iPhone. Ipad and Yeah, on the Mac as well. 19:06:12 With the current operating systems. If you, several people said that they couldn't follow the instructions I had for doing masking in the session on photos. 19:06:22 Because they were running mac OS 10.9 or something like that. No, it won't work in that. 19:06:29 It's a fairly recent thing. 19:06:30 1 one last question is did that computer find a home? 19:06:36 The person was giving away. 19:06:38 The answer to that is complicated. There is a person who wants it and the donor would like to give it to him except for the person who once it is making things. 19:06:51 Complicated. So 19:06:53 Oh. Okay, well if they change their mind to who they donate, I don't know if it was like. 19:07:01 Alphabetical or who came in first, but my dad's still interested in it. 19:07:12 Yeah. 19:07:14 Okay, that's all I had. 19:07:16 Okay, anything else before we start? 19:07:21 The original question for the discussion of. Maps. Was Steve's because he wanted to know if he could do some things. 19:07:33 And Apple Maps. That you can do in Google Maps. And I looked and you really can't do that because Apple Maps has a very different focus. 19:07:46 And and to to explain this. I will start by saying I know a lot about maps. I used to work for map making agency, National Ocean Service makes all the nautical charts for the United States. 19:07:58 And they used to make all the aeronautical mark charts for the United States, which they still do, but now the FAA gets credit for that. 19:08:10 And so I know a lot of geographers and cartographers and so on and so forth. 19:08:16 When Google Maps first came out, it was just hot stuff. It was not the first, Microsoft had something called terror view or something like that. 19:08:28 I this was late twentieth century stuff and you get these black and white images of the earth and later on they added color and so on and so forth. 19:08:38 And it was kind of patchy in terms of the coverage and it was basically a mosaic. 19:08:44 Of the earth using a bunch of these photographs. And, when 19:08:52 That existed and when Google Maps first came out. All the maps were bit mapped and by that it's it's like. 19:09:00 A picture under your phone, a whole bunch of pixels. And the good news bad news is the good news is they figured out a way to mathematically tile this stuff together so they didn't have to send you the entire map at once they sent you however many tiles you needed for whatever. 19:09:18 Scale that you wanted. So if you were looking at something big scale, they'd send you one large tile. 19:09:24 If you were looking at something smaller scale, they'd have to chop it up and give you parts of it. 19:09:28 And it worked quite well given the limitations of the time. When Apple Maps came along, Apple did something radically different. 19:09:37 Apple Maps is based upon polygons. And if you think about it in terms of geometry. 19:09:45 How many points do you need to draw a circle? 19:09:50 3. 19:09:51 2. You need the center. Define the center of the circle and then you just need one other point and that's the radius and you just spin it around the circle, spin it around the origin you end up with a circle. 19:10:06 So you only need 2 points and with polygons you basically can draw almost anything with 3 points. And depending upon how big the triangle is and if you want to add an extra. 19:10:17 The point then you can get a square but it takes very few It takes very little information and you can take almost anything and turn it into a whole bunch of polygons. 19:10:28 And that's what Apple Maps did. And that's what Apple Maps did. And the advantage is that's what Apple Maps did. 19:10:35 And the advantage is that by sending just the coordinates and having your phone build the map. Out of these very few things, you could send a lot of data. 19:10:42 Oh, and that looked like a map using much less. Of your phone data. So if you were using, if you were navigating using Apple Maps, the amount of data that you used on your phone was just trivial compared to Google Maps. 19:10:56 With Google Maps, you could burn through your entire data plan on a trip going downtown back in the days when you only got 50 megs of data a month. 19:11:09 Just going downtown, that could burn through everything you had. But with Apple Maps, it wouldn't. 19:11:09 Because as much much more efficient because you're sending much less data and then the the phone itself builds the map on the fly using these very few data points. 19:11:20 The bad news was that Apple Maps wasn't particularly accurate. There were lots of tales about people being sent the wrong way down the one way streets or. 19:11:31 Being told to turn down streets that had that didn't exist anymore or that down highways that hadn't been built and so on and so forth, all kinds of horror stories. 19:11:42 But Apple got much better and actually fairly quickly and they did that by purchasing companies that provided a whole bunch of data surveying companies that went out and surveyed things for states and federal agencies and and real estate agents and whatnot, whole bunch of people who have. 19:12:02 GEOGRAPHIC, data and Apple bought a whole bunch of those companies. And so today, Apple Maps is considered just as reliable as Google Maps. 19:12:13 But in terms of the emphasis upon the maps, It's quite different. Google Maps is based upon the web. 19:12:22 And anything you can do in Google Maps, you can, it shows up on your phone, but it'll also push you up in your browser and your computer on the computer if you're actually trying to get directions to go from here to Port Angels, probably not as useful because as soon as my computer gets to the to the limit of my Wi-Fi. 19:12:40 If the map stops working. Where is on your phone? It's it's much more useful. 19:12:45 So what you can do with Google Maps seems Limited if you only consider it the fact that it's using web technology, but because it's using the web technology, you can do things that you can't do with Apple Maps. 19:12:59 Apple Maps is designed to be used by the user. The person sitting there looking at their Mac screen, the person sitting there looking at their phone or their iPad, they're using the Apple Maps and it's designed to be interactively used by that person. 19:13:12 With Google Maps though, you can share them and you can share them easily. You can make a map of something and you can just send the URL to somebody and when they get that URL it goes and reproduces that map on their screen, whether it's a computer or phone or an iPad, doesn't make any difference. 19:13:31 So the purpose that they have is quite different. And because of the technology that's designed. The Apple Maps also can do some things that Google really has trouble doing. 19:13:42 If you've looked at if you've ever used Apple Maps and, in, in Seattle, it'll actually have threed portrayals of a lot of the buildings and so on. 19:13:51 So, And in San Francisco, it'll even tell you which subway in San Francisco and DC, it'll tell you which subway exit to. 19:14:03 Leave the area. And Google really doesn't do that. You you kind of come to the top of the escalator in Google and it says beats the heck out of me. 19:14:14 It doesn't really know what direction you're facing or anything like that. You have to walk a block or so. 19:14:19 Before it reorient itself. And so they have a different purpose. But having said that, there are a lot of things that you that are worth demonstrating with both of them. 19:14:30 And I'm going to start off with Google Maps because I've been using Google Maps. 19:14:35 Since it since before it existed since I worked for a match back being agency one of the first things they did is they contacted national oceanic and atmospheric administration and the national geograph See you, that's that's that. 19:14:57 National geodetic survey belongs to NOAA. The The The map may be part part part of the department, which I can't remember right this second. 19:15:11 They contacted us, we got to use it for 6 8 months before they actually made it. into production. 19:15:18 So I got to play with it. From a fairly early age. And I'm going to share my screen. 19:15:25 So that I can show you some things. 19:15:29 And the first thing I'm gonna do is move this menu bar that you can't even see. 19:15:34 So it's not my way. Okay. 19:15:44 Google Maps just by taking in Google Maps and it comes up with a map and you can say I went to go to. 19:15:57 Let's go in post office. And it shows you where it is on the map. And then you can say you went directions and it says where are you starting from I'm starting from Bremerton. 19:16:10 Washington and I say go and it. Draws me directions and I can say. Send directions to your phone and give you your dip things. 19:16:24 If you press this details, it gives you the actual parts that you need to do. So you Go down these little, sections and eventually you end up there and it says take 1 h and 8 min right to second. 19:16:36 To get to Bremerton. In spite of the fact that they're doing this. See this nice little red and orange part here. 19:16:51 The good news, bad news about Google is that it's pretty good at doing that at doing its thing. 19:16:58 It's a little bit bad when it comes to things like if you wanted to go from Kingston over to Seattle sometimes it's really bad about things like fairy schedules and such. 19:17:08 It tries really hard. The iPhone and I don't have my iPhone set up to do that. 19:17:15 One of the things you can do is you can actually ask it to download the map. To your phone so it doesn't have to constantly go out and ask for new data when you are doing something. 19:17:29 And the best way to do that, say you want to Do, a whole weekend around the Olympic Peninsula and you're not sure of your your cell signal you frame the entire Olympic Peninsula on your phone and then you go to the option and I don't know offhand where it is, but it's one of the options just you can pick and it'll download that entire map and it'll keep 19:17:54 it for something like 3 weeks or 6 weeks or something like that. That's really useful if you lose yourself signal because That way it's not constantly going out and having to. 19:18:06 You basically stop moving until they can grab the next piece of of Nap as you're moving around the, peninsula. 19:18:15 Apple does this quite a bit different because it's vector based and so Apple Just assumes that where you're moving is. 19:18:24 In an area and it goes out and automatically grabs the data from front and behind and through the side of where you are and because the data is much much more compact because it's because it's vectors. 19:18:37 It doesn't even bother to ask you that. It just does that automatically. So you can wander around for quite a while. 19:18:44 Without any cell signal and Apple Maps is perfectly happy with that. The Apple Maps is using the GPS chip inside of your phone. 19:18:53 Your phone, depending upon the age, also has a barometer inside so it can even knows your altitude as you're moving around. 19:19:04 And with that it's perfectly happy to. Say, okay, you gone. 1,800 feet and you should turn to the left now. 19:19:12 One thing that, Apple Maps does that is really, really handy. If you have an Apple Watch, your Apple Watch will actually vibrate. 19:19:22 When it comes to telling you whether it's a left turn or a right turn. And I don't really care there are 2 different types of signals. 19:19:32 I don't bother. I just wait for it to vibrate, and that tells me to pay attention to get ready for the turn. 19:19:39 And the reason is that I already know what direction they need to turn. I just may not know when that road is coming up. 19:19:44 And but if you're going to turn to the I have a note over here. When it wants you to turn. 19:19:55 To the 19:20:02 To turn to the right, there's a low tone followed by a high tone, so it goes talk-tick. 19:20:08 And that means turns on the right and when you're going to turn to the left it does the opposite. 19:20:13 I never remember which is which so I just wait until I get this double, double tap on my wrist and it tells me, oh yeah, I should pay attention to the turn coming up. 19:20:23 And that's really handy because in my car, I can't really see my phone. 19:20:28 It's it's lying down on the console in front of the base so I can't see the phone so I'm not staring at the phone all the time. 19:20:36 And having it remind me that I'm going to make turn is really quite useful. And you can always so either set it up to have you speak the directions or not speak the directions. 19:20:46 My car does have carplay, but sometimes, Toyota and its instant, it's infinite wisdom, decides that it can't use Carplay. 19:20:57 So if I can't use Carplay, and I want to know what I'm doing, I just listen to the phone or wait for the taps on my wrist. 19:21:04 And both Apple. Apple Maps and, Google Maps work perfectly well for giving directions. 19:21:13 One difference that is quite funny is that I have the voice on my phone set to an Australian woman's accent. 19:21:25 Which normally is not. Really relevant to anything, but in coming into swim, she says very very precisely. 19:21:36 You are now entering Sequium. And it just cracks me up every time. But, Apple Maps actually pronounced the swim correctly. 19:21:46 I don't know why. I didn't and if they sweat it said it to an American accent and maybe Google would too. 19:21:53 I just I don't know but I like the Australian accent. So this is this is Apple Maps. 19:22:04 And Apple Maps works pretty much the same on. I don't know. I went this to go away. 19:22:12 There's a box that just peered on me. Apple Maps works pretty much the same way on Mac and PC and so forth. 19:22:19 You can also make custom maps only to get to custom maps. You say, my maps, google. 19:22:25 And in this case I already have some of maps that I created. So I'll show you what. 19:22:31 The examples are. I live in Sunland North and Sunlandmore has a beach cottage that's right here at this intersection. 19:22:39 And in order to tell people about it, I made this app, and this map and Apple Maps and and distribute it to. 19:22:46 It's a fairly simple map because that's the only thing it shows. I don't know how they're going to get there, but if they if they have this on their phone, they can go up here and then ask for directions and it'll create directions from wherever they are to the. 19:23:00 To the beach cottage. Very, very simple one. And you can also make things that a little bit more complex or just strange. 19:23:10 I made this map that shows you the NSA. I'm headquarters in Seattle. In this particular NSA, Seattle is not the national security agency. 19:23:21 It's just some company it calls SNSA. But I this acquaintance who was very paranoid and he found this place that was called NSA. 19:23:30 Seattle so I went looking for it and I did find it but what they do is there's something like national services or association or something they're not spying on anybody here is a map that I made in 2,015 of a trip that I made with various relatives to various places. 19:23:48 And And, and, Oregon and Washington. And even list where we happen to go. 19:23:58 During this. During this trip and I did this because a lot of the My daughter who came in from England and Kathleen came in from Colorado. 19:24:11 She was doing something in Colorado. Somebody else came in from, Colorado and. We just had this collective map so we could I could show them the places we had. 19:24:21 Gone and visited when I was in Helsinki for a world science fiction convention. These are various places that I visited in Helsinki. 19:24:32 And so I just did this just to keep my own memory. Where we went. Because I don't speak. 19:24:41 Finish and sometimes I would miss it. I visited a couple places but I wasn't actually sure what it was caused. 19:24:47 So I May the map so I could find out what that thing is supposed to be called. This is crowdsourced map, World War 2 battles. 19:24:59 It's really quite terrible because most battles aren't covered on it. But if you zoom in to here, this is not a battle, it's just, and that was one of the major ports that they used for the invasion. 19:25:13 And the Juno and Omaha. Beaches and so on so forth and certain battles the Battle of Bellstone but Most of the battles that took place in World War II are not. 19:25:26 There at all. And so it's a terrible map, but this is the kind of thing that is crowdsourced. 19:25:33 A group of of amateur historians actually created this. And I was intrigued with what they did. 19:25:40 Even if I wasn't particularly impressed with the. With the result. A much, much, much more ambitious one. 19:25:48 Is this map? Showing shipwrecks of World War 2. Shipwrecks. These are ships that were torpedoed or mine or or were lost in battle. 19:25:59 And it gets pretty dense depending upon where. The battle was like This area around, the Guadalcanal is called. 19:26:10 Iron Bottom Sound because so many ships were during World War 2 and you can click on one in it'll pop up and it just tells you what that particular.is, that's why Japanese battleship there. 19:26:24 And if we were really lucky and believed in Pink Tinker Bell, there's a photograph of the ship that same there and you click on another one that's a US destroyer and This is going to be another US destroyer. 19:26:38 Sometimes you can tell just by way they're located is to who they probably are. It has lots of things in it that are strange though, for example. 19:26:46 If I come in here and say. USS Nimitz. Well, the Nimitz is a current day. 19:26:55 Aircraft carrier. It's not in World War 2 and it's not a shipwreck and it shows the Nimitz as being. 19:27:03 And. Bremerton and these are 2 Mothballed aircraft carriers that are in Bremerton and whoever was making the map apparently didn't quite understand that this was about shipwrecks from World War 2, which was one of the problems you have with cloud source. 19:27:24 Memory is crowdsource projects is that you You can't necessarily be. Trusting them because of the quality controls. 19:27:36 And the other one that it has is it has the RMS Titanic. And the, RMS Titanic, yes, it really was sunk at that particular spot. 19:27:43 Which is in the middle of nowhere, but that was before World War One, it had nothing to do with World War 2. 19:27:51 Right. There were people who millions of people who were fought during World War 2 weren't even born at the time that this ship with some. 19:28:01 So, This is an example of a much more complex. Map and 19:28:11 I had somebody wanted to know. how far is where I'm moving from DC because I lived in the DC area. 19:28:24 One of the things that you don't normally notice here is there's a scale. In this My Maps. 19:28:29 You can draw a line from DC to Squim and it says it's 2,000. 342 miles. 19:28:38 Based upon where I stuck this. But it's you can click on another thing and you can you can actually take the map scale and to go from Edmonton to. 19:28:48 Albuquerque to Dallas to Ontario. Ottawa and it's measuring the entire distance. 19:28:56 And it's using, notice that the lines are, I don't know if you can actually see the lines, but the lines are slightly curved because it's using. 19:29:05 The curvature of the earth. It really is current when you put on a flat map it looks like the these straight lines are actually curved. 19:29:14 But it's got a bunch of tools here. This is a good example of. Some of the tools that you have. 19:29:21 You can move that or you can move the RAM map around by clicking on the hand. You can drop a point. 19:29:26 Some place like Winnipeg. You drop a point there and you can, once you have that point, you can say that's. 19:29:35 Yeah. It helps if you spell it correctly. You can go into different kinds of layers of the map. 19:29:45 And. 19:29:51 This thing here is a base map here. This is a what's called a political map here. But you can go with a photographic math. 19:29:58 And then you can zoom in and see the ocean. When you see things like this where you see these strange little features here. 19:30:06 These we see a bunch of straight lines or you see grid lines on this that has to do with how the maps the the bottom of the ocean in his map. 19:30:15 It's done by using the map grid drawn by a ship. So the ships. Firing a sonar beam down. 19:30:23 Below and it's and it does this in a grid or in these lines and so then later on people say oh look I found cloud farm fields underneath. 19:30:36 And so then later on people say, oh look I found cloud farm fields underneath the underneath the Pacific is that is that the, is that, is that the, is that, is that, is that Atlanta, is? Underneath the, Pacific. 19:30:41 Is, is that, They use the data that we can come up with and the data that we come up in this case is just. 19:30:46 Sonar waves and the sunar waves are not. They don't have We have a mapped that much of the ocean. 19:30:54 So it it comes across as you see these looks like. Cloud fields. But one of the base maps is this. 19:31:04 A photo image and the not the ocean but the land is actually satellite photos. So this This is a mosaic of satellite photos if you're looking at Mount Rainier. 19:31:14 And that's one of the base maps. And then if you want to do something like a medieval type map you can do something like this which doesn't look terribly medieval here but you go over the east coast. 19:31:27 Looks more medieval like but you can check out the different base maps and once you've made a map and you've added the the pointers that you want to add there. 19:31:38 You can send it to somebody else you can also change the style of the. The elements. 19:31:53 Which I don't see how I can do that right this second. You can change the, the images that it uses for these points. 19:32:02 But it's been a while since I've done that. I don't see that. You can also have a different layers so you can have a different layers so you can have a you can have an overlay showing states that voted for Trump and then you can have an overlay showing states that voted for Trump and then you can go to a different layer and it shows states that voted for Trump and then you can go to a different layer and it shows states this vote for 19:32:17 Biden. Different layer in states that voted for Abraham Lincoln. And all in one map and send all this kind of, kind of, and the. 19:32:25 All this information off too other people. And it's saves it by this address. So once you make a base map, you share it with some people, all you send them is that string and then they have that copy of that. 19:32:39 So this is my maps and. I've made quite a few of these. This one here, for example. 19:32:48 Somebody wanted to know, actually it was a government agency that was giving me a clear and say, I don't know all the places I visited or lived in. 19:32:57 And so I sent them this map and you'll see it's heavily biased towards the to the Pacific. 19:33:04 The Atlantic coast. And to the mostly the northern hemisphere just one thing in the southern hemisphere. 19:33:13 So that's just a quick list of places that I'd be there. Lived in for more than a week. 19:33:18 Different kinds of things you can do this and this is to get there you just go to my maps Google. 19:33:31 Calm. Now if you don't have a Google account, one of the first things you're going to have to do is set up a that's something that you can do with that. 19:33:40 That is, my maps. However, that's not all. There's also 19:33:46 Google Earth. And Google Earth. Which also works in a browser. There's also, a, and downloadable app. 19:33:58 But the downloadable app is kind of buggy on the map, Mac, cause they haven't updated it that often. 19:34:05 But with the downloadable map, you can do things like. Say swim. 19:34:12 Washington, press enter and it flies you there. 19:34:40 Well, New Zealand now. 19:34:44 So. 19:34:47 Google Earth is really, useful for things like I used to I used to use this in teaching. Not quite a bit. 19:34:56 It's sometimes astonishing how little people know about their own planet. Like. Looking at Antarctica and Artica looks really Impressive here, but what people don't realize is that anarctica is mostly just an island chain. 19:35:12 Most of the stuff that you see that looks like land isn't it's just ice. Floating on top of the ocean and on top of the islands. 19:35:18 And if the ice can't melt, not only will it flood. Where we're living and it'll also reveal that this is just an island chain. 19:35:27 So you can teach people all kinds of useful things. About the world by playing with this. There is also with some effort you can also go to There is a Google Mars that allows you to play around with Mars and a Google Moon that allows you to play around with the moon. 19:35:47 Which is also quite cool. So there is the Google, maps that you use on your phone. 19:35:54 There is the My Maps where you can make your own custom maps. And then there's Google Earth, which is. 19:36:01 I will tell you that if you have a slow internet. Line, you'll hate this because this is extremely data intensive. 19:36:10 In terms of what it can do, but some of the things you can do with it are quite extensive. 19:36:14 You can have settings. So for example, the the, the map distance, it can be degrees minutes or seconds, or we can do it with decimals, which is how modern maps are done. 19:36:27 So you have your 98.3 8 degrees east and. And instead of 98 min. 98 degrees. 19:36:40 6 min, 12 s. Which nobody understands how that works so you can do all kinds of different things, change the animation speed and all kinds of stuff. 19:36:50 So, that is, 19:36:55 Reset to default. Go away. 19:36:59 And I'm trying to make. Yeah. 19:37:06 And it is locked up slightly because it's very dangerous. 19:37:15 Apple Maps. Is quite a bit different. So. 19:37:21 Here is the squim post office. And downtown Squam and so on and so forth. But again, you can also get things like different. 19:37:32 Layers this one right here is a standard. Layer but you can also have a satellite view to to show things. 19:37:43 It's not that if you look up at the top there's this show you different kinds of settings that you can have for driving, for transit. 19:37:52 You don't have much in the way of transit. Or the satellite view. The Satellite Zoo, by the way, I don't recommend if you're driving because it's extremely data intensive and you'll burn up your. 19:38:03 Your data plan a lot faster. The, driving view is, is particularly useful if you're going to something like Seattle. 19:38:12 The 3D view you notice that you probably can't actually tell that but the 3D view here is shaded because it's I'm not going to work in Squam because we don't have anything like that. 19:38:23 So. Let's go to. Seattle. 19:38:32 And. I don't want directions. I want to actually go to Seattle. 19:38:42 And you'll see that Seattle has 3D. Which doesn't seem to do much until you go downtown. 19:38:49 And there are some things downtown that'll shop in 3D. And the nice thing is that because this is vector based. 19:38:58 It's just sending shapes. And so it's looking at this. Tall building here, which I don't happen to know what it is. 19:39:05 And it's, that's PCC community markets or something. Maybe that's the thing at the top of it. 19:39:12 But. It's just sending the geometric design for it and then apple maps is filling in the rest so it's not actually sending that shape it's just sending the the outline of the shape and it's filling it in. 19:39:24 And you can wander around Seattle and I don't know that it has the ferris wheel. 19:39:32 Don't think so. 19:39:35 Yes. 19:39:34 Lawrence. Is there a way that you can tell it? You do wanna see cafes and restaurants or you don't wanna see it so that it's not. 19:39:45 Quite as busy. We only want to see the names of the streets like. So that it's more pronounced. 19:39:52 The well one thing is if you get rid of the 3D effect that definitely gets rid a lot of the 19:40:02 Information. In terms of not showing a lot of that stuff the reason why a lot of that is there is that it's useful in terms of navigation. 19:40:12 I'll give you an example from Japan. The streets in Japan are not named are numbered. And I actually, there is a switch to show you. 19:40:27 I mean, sometimes I want to know about Starbucks and about whatever. There is but and other times I don't really care to know that. 19:40:40 Oh my. I wouldn't know. 19:40:42 This is. Yes, this is where we used to live. We lived in, this section of, Kirihama. 19:40:53 None of the streets are. Named. None of them. There's a highway over here that's a highway, 1 34, but none of the streets are named. 19:41:05 We lived in 4 29 8. Which is this district right up here. And this house was. Number 8 The houses are numbered in the order in which they are built. 19:41:21 So this 4 29 8 was our home and it was the. 8 one built on this block. And at the time that we lived there. 19:41:34 At the time that we live there, This whole corner was ours. It was a double lot, but it was only a single building. 19:41:41 And since then, they tore down that house and they built 2 houses there. And if you come out here and we look at the map. 19:41:49 You can see that it's, It's kind of intense as, as you mentioned. 19:41:55 So if If nothing is. If the streets don't have names, how do people find? 19:42:04 Places. Well, each of these blocks is numbered. And this is the for show me it means the fourth district. 19:42:12 Of the neighborhood of Highland. And it says high land here, but the Japanese actually pronounced it. 19:42:21 So we lived in 4 29 8. Almost all Japanese are really, really, really good at drawing excellent maps. 19:42:31 So you want to know how to get someplace somebody whips out a napkin or something and draws you a map. 19:42:37 You don't need street names. According to them, you just have to know that it's in this district of Highland, the fourth ward. 19:42:48 It's a 20 ninth block and it's the eighth house. Now the eighth house can be between the 16 house and the 30 s house. 19:42:55 It doesn't because they're not sequential. You have to kind of wander around the block at least once in order to find it. 19:43:01 And a hundred 30 million people live in Japan and this works fine for them. So why? How do you know? 19:43:06 How do you know a district you're in? 19:43:12 You know like 19:43:10 It says right here, Oh, how do you know that on these on this major thoroughfare here, there are small little circular signs that say 3 or 4 and if you're if you can look at it and says 3 that means behind that sign is the third ward and you look at the other ones behind that sign is the is the fourth board. 19:43:32 Those the blocks are not numbered you just kind of have to wing it. But the houses themselves have the small plastic. 19:43:43 Plaque on it that'll have in my case it said or dash 29 dash 8. 19:43:48 So you knew you were in the fourth ward, the 20 ninth block and it was the eighth house. But the signs are fairly small. 19:43:55 They're about 8 inches across. So you do have to know what you're doing. Getting back to my question to your question, though, about what if you don't want the restaurants? 19:44:07 Well, really the restaurants and such are really useful in terms of being able to. Figure out where you are because they're their landmarks. 19:44:18 So in this that's the name of a gourmet food. Shop there and if you happen to pass by this Food shop it tells you where you are. 19:44:29 It's it's it's a a necessary piece of navigation. Kathleen would regularly get lost in Japan because she would pick She would pick landmarks that were movable. 19:44:43 Like for example, one day she ended up in this place called Oraga. And I will. 19:44:50 Where are we? We're in where in Balam County again. Let's go back to. 19:45:00 Move it over here. This is Oraga right here. She ended up in Niagara because she missed the turn off. 19:45:07 You see, when the train came in, she didn't get off the train. She fell asleep and and it and it stopped in Oraga. 19:45:13 So she got off. And I said, describe where you are. And she said, well, I see this big sailing ship. 19:45:19 And I said, oh, you're in Aragog. We'll pick you up. 19:45:22 And I was there a few minutes ago later and she was really torqued off with me. How can I do tell by a big sailing shop? 19:45:27 Well, the Sailing ship by Dentistorians called the Nipon Maru and it's their equivalent of the Coast Guard's Cutter Eagle, which is a huge sailing ship that they teach people. 19:45:37 How to be Coastguard officers and the Japanese were building a brand new sailing chip for their naval officers and Coastguard officers and they were building here in Oraga so when she said that she saw it I knew where it was. 19:45:51 Why she got lost coming home Monday though is that she went past this she knew to turn at this place that had this green awning. 19:45:59 Well, she went by later in the day and they had rolled up the awning. So the Anne wasn't visible, she missed it. 19:46:07 So she, I told her, you know, get some things that are more permanent. Well, then she got lost about a couple months later. 19:46:14 They were middle of political campaign and she was turning at this trailer that they that's one political party was using. 19:46:20 Well, after the election they moved the trailer. And she got lost again. So. You learn a lot about navigation just by learning how to use landmarks and signs are essential landmarks. 19:46:33 So if you go into Seattle, you might think that that's distracting in terms of the map, but those. 19:46:38 Landmarks are really, really useful. In terms of. Finding out where you are. If you're going down the. 19:46:48 Streets and it there's a. 19:46:54 And the Apple Maps is showing where you're located and it shows that there's a Starbucks or something. 19:47:02 Only bar, which is a restaurant here. Oh, we're just passing, onibaba. 19:47:10 We're moving this way, so I must be here. So that you might see as a distraction, but it's actually an essential landmark. 19:47:14 Can you show me how you go from this view map to Street View? 19:47:21 You do that. No, you have to remember I'm doing this on a map, on a Mac. 19:47:31 Yeah. 19:47:26 There's this thing up this thing that looks like an accordion of a folded map. If I click on that it says there's the the basic, view that I have here. 19:47:39 There's a driving view, which will tell you among other things about Streets that are blocked off and traffic jams and so on and so forth. 19:47:46 There's a transit view, which is useful for things like the the what is this? 19:47:55 The link rail and buses and so on and so forth. It highlights those. And then there's a sad light view. 19:47:59 I do not recommend the satellite view. Or an urban area because it's just. Way too busy, but you pick off. 19:48:08 These different views from this. Accordion symbol. So this one here is shows you where you are. 19:48:18 This one allows you to pick. Different types of maps. This 3D one again only works in places like Seattle. 19:48:25 I actually show you San Francisco. Because San Francisco is really quite cool. 19:48:50 And you go to the 3D view and you can see all kinds of of cool things. Such as, this area. 19:48:46 Okay. Fisher Okay. Okay. 19:48:59 Here's got this cool building and. I'm trying to remember where Koit Tower is. 19:49:07 I think it's over here someplace. I can guess I can ask it. 19:49:09 Yeah. 19:49:20 Okay, Okay, is kind of odd. It's this odd shaped tower in San Francisco. And people want to know. 19:49:33 Why did they build this on-shaped tower? It's a monument to the firefighters who fought the San Francisco fire. 19:49:41 That is the end of a fire hose. 19:49:45 And it's this really big tower in the middle of San Francisco. And you can come up here and. 19:49:52 You know just It shows you pictures of it and the quite tower with downtown in the background and so on and so forth. 19:50:02 As you might expect because Apple's not that far away. San Francisco has a really good detailed. 19:50:09 3d map. And, Trans America building. All kinds of neat stuff. 19:50:20 So it 19:50:20 But you can't take that little person and like just put it on the street and say look around or street view or I don't remember. 19:50:27 Yeah, if, if you, zoom in. Like, down here. There is actually a look around function. 19:50:38 Oh, you just have to be zoomed in for enough. 19:50:38 Hmm. Yes, because the the reason well it depends upon what kind of view you want for example if I say if I'm zoomed in and I'm at the street view, you can actually. 19:50:52 You see, it gives you a kind of a 3D effect for the. For the buildings as well. 19:50:59 And you kind of have to be zoomed in because if you're out too far. Doesn't really mean that much but you can Scroll along here. 19:51:06 Now in this case, because this is actual photographs, you're getting to 3 dimensional view of a photograph. 19:51:12 This is much more data intensive if you wanted to spend. Less money on bandwidth, you use this. 19:51:20 And you turn off the 3D effect. And then it uses much, much, much less. 19:51:26 Data because it has to send less data back and forth. I used to live in the San Francisco area, so. 19:51:34 I'm just really impressed with what they did with San Francisco. San Francisco is good. Seattle's good. 19:51:42 San Diego is good. DC is good. Omaha, Nebraska, not so great. 19:51:48 You're not going to. Apple just doesn't have a data set that covers that many places. 19:51:54 It'll probably be another 30, 40 years before they have a 3D map of Squin. So, but again, the the purpose of Apple Maps is quite different than Google Maps because it's not web based. 19:52:11 You can share a map with someone. You press this little share button here and you can you can mail it to someone or you can send it to a message or airdrop it or so on and so forth. 19:52:24 But it's really not the same as just. Take any URL and then just email it to like 50 people. 19:52:31 No, it doesn't. Doesn't do that. For one thing, maps can also be quite personal. 19:52:36 This thing, among other things, tells you that I recently looked for the doctors clinic in, in, Silverdale. 19:52:44 And I recently looked for my old house and in. And, your And, I wanted to know where Great View Washington was recently because. 19:52:56 Plane crash there and Where is Paradise Restaurant? Didn't know which paradise restaurant people were talking about. 19:53:05 So I looked that up. And the Point Townsend Arrow Museum where I spent a happy afternoon couple weeks ago. 19:53:14 This is all extremely personal information, but it only exists on my phone. Or on my computer. 19:53:20 It doesn't share this with the entire world. Google shares with the entire world. Now, I'm not particularly paranoid about that, but a number of a number of criminals have been caught. 19:53:34 By people going through their Google Maps history and they say, you were looking here, you looked, we found a dead body here and you went in there. 19:53:46 And we have it because it's Apple because Google Maps says you went there. So it has a very different purpose. 19:53:52 The. Kathleen and I had a Christmas once at the Kitty Hawk. 19:54:00 You' a Methodist church. And Katie Hawk. South Carolina. 19:54:09 And if we were to drive there right now, would take only take one day and 21 h driving straight. 19:54:16 We like to go to the outer banks. And in the winter time because nobody else was there. 19:54:23 And the trouble is that everything shut down. So you're probably there's good chance you'll start to death, but you have this entire huge see short to yourself. 19:54:34 It's quite a thrill sitting in front of ocean foot. Nice. Fireplace with a fire going looking out this big picture window with snow flying at you across the Atlantic. 19:54:47 I highly recommend it. 19:54:50 But Apple Maps has a very different purpose than Google Maps. And the security on Apple Maps is outstanding. 19:54:57 Everything that I do. On Apple Maps. Goes through the Apple security chip. So if I want to share something, it has to be somebody that's in my contacts that I already trust. 19:55:10 I can't share it with just anybody. It makes it difficult to. To share it with just anyone. 19:55:15 And that's by design. Because. Your travel is quite personal and quite confidential. 19:55:23 But in terms of the question that Steve had for me a couple weeks ago was, is there a way to build these custom maps in Apple Maps like you can in Google Maps. 19:55:34 And the answer is now. It's not really designed for that. You can. Have you can plan a trip and you can ask for a new map and add waypoints and so on and so forth and save that. 19:55:44 But it's not the, you really can't have the same kind of. Custom maps that you can make with Google Maps. 19:55:54 Any questions about any of that? 19:56:01 No questions? 19:56:05 Does anyone want to venture a guest as to how much Apple Maps is used every day? 19:56:17 Sesameage used 4 to 6 billion. Times a day. Because pretty much everybody. Where's that? 19:56:27 IPhone or iPad? How's that? How? At least once a day brought up maps to take them someplace. 19:56:35 And you can also. Link maps into things like notes and reminders and a lot of other things on the Mac. 19:56:43 So that. If you have a reminder that pops up and says that you need to pick up your prescription at Walgreens it'll actually offer to give you directions and you tap on that and it'll give you directions from. 19:56:57 Wherever you are to Walgreens, go pick up your. Prescription so it's linked in to reminders and notes and a bunch of other things. 19:57:08 It's really quite well done that it has a very different purpose than Google Maps. And Google Maps has a different purpose than Google's My Maps. 19:57:18 And. Earth, Google Earth has a very, very different purpose. Google Earth is 19:57:30 Much closer to the professional GIS. Packages that I used at work. You can actually export. A map. 19:57:39 As a bunch of instructions. Like for example, That one where I showed you. 19:57:48 The sunken warships. Let's see if I have that. 19:57:54 This is what They data file for that looks like. If if you happen to know what XML is. 19:58:03 This is. Come on. 19:58:14 This is an XML file. That has, what the data is and then it tells you. 19:58:21 Where it is located and the scale and where and all kinds of stuff. And then that's how you share the information. 19:58:31 You take these files that are standardized. And you mail it off to somebody and it allows them to build something in. 19:58:38 And Google Earth or and. In my maps. Just a bunch of standardized stuff. 19:58:47 Google invented this, data interchange for maps and it was not in the least better standardized thing. 19:58:57 But Google made it open, so pretty much all professional packages now. Take advantage of that. 19:59:05 Apple Maps does not because again, Apple Maps is designed for a very different kind of purpose. 19:59:14 Any questions? 19:59:18 I know I didn't answer Steve's question, but I hope. Bye. Told you something about maps that you didn't know before. 19:59:29 And anyone on went to volunteer to do the. Topic for this September meeting. 19:59:40 Somebody can teach me something for a change. 19:59:46 I'm interested to know. 19:59:51 Yes? 19:59:54 Go ahead, Ron. 19:59:46 You don't think Oh no, I was just making a Joke, quote unquote. 20:00:02 Oh, where did you say that was? About that. By Kitty Hawk there the rest of the hotel. 20:00:11 Oh. 20:00:11 Oh, Kenny Hawk is where, the Wright brothers. I took off and The, the Methodist church there, Kathleen and I wanted to go to a Methodist church. 20:00:25 And that one was open on. On Christmas, which is not a surprise. But what we were surprised at We saw more people in that church than we'd seen the entire rest of the week. 20:00:37 On the outer banks because The church was pretty much full and it was just a That was a very nice experience. 20:00:44 They were nice and and welcoming and offered us cake and all kinds of stuff. It was just a nice memory. 20:00:52 I thought maybe there was a specific hotel. 20:00:52 And I'm Oh no, we, we were at a, we rented a, They have a whole bunch of. 20:01:03 I don't know what you call resorts, they call them resorts, but you can just rent a Hello, a large suite. 20:01:12 During the wintertime. Like in the summertime it might be like a thousand dollars a day and then wintertime it could be like 89 bucks. 20:01:20 A day so we went in the winter time. And also this a bridge. You can't see it here, but if we go up here. 20:01:30 Actually, I went too far. I guess it is that bridge. This bridge in the summertime, it can take 12 h to go across this bridge. 20:01:39 It's not very long bridge. But it can take 12 h because this is a 2 lane road. 20:01:45 And just tens of thousands of people went to go on it. But in the wintertime, the most of the places shut down and all the restaurants are shut down. 20:01:55 There's one supermarket. Kathleen and I ran out of milk and we, our round trip was 140 miles to buy milk that day because there's only one supermarket that's owning. 20:02:12 Oh, what, what you don't quite realize is how long this 20:02:13 You know, from down here. To up here that's that's quite a ways. And Cape Hatches is where the Call us Lighthouse in United States is located right there. 20:02:27 And the USS monitor is sunk right about here. The world, the Civil War monitor. It sank while it was being towed right about there. 20:02:39 No, it's an interesting place. 20:02:43 And in the winter time, there's nobody else there, so it's lovely. 20:02:51 Any other questions? 20:02:52 Is there in? Good. Reason why that island chain looks like that. I mean, is it something that's geographical that Okay. 20:03:04 Yes. Yes. The. Gulf strain, which is Starts in the Gulf of Mexico, all this hot water. 20:03:14 The hot water goes out here. And then it starts heading north. And here is where it comes up against a stream that comes up cold water that comes across the Atlantic. 20:03:27 And it pushes it in. Closer to the shore and it kind of the convergence plate is right here. 20:03:36 So in the wintertime this is very very foggy. There are lots of wrecks because this this wind is coming in. 20:03:44 Basically from Europe and Africa. This way the warm waters coming up here and it creates storms and fog and so on so forth and they call this the graveyard of the Atlantic because in the back before they had. 20:04:00 Motorized. Ships they would just get slammed into the coastline along here. And. 20:04:07 But the Gulf Stream then goes this way all the way up to. Canada and then across over to. 20:04:16 Let's. Broaden this out to Ireland and then comes down this way. If you were to move the British Isles. 20:04:27 To North America. All of the British Isles would fit within Canada. It's quite far north. 20:04:40 Hmm. 20:04:34 But the temperature there in the wintertime is more moderate than it is where we are. And that's because on the West Side, there is a cold current that comes down instead of a warm current coming back up. 20:04:48 And also the water is much deeper. You'll notice that off the Atlantic coast. See how shallow it is way way out there and off the off the Pacific coast it just plummets almost immediately. 20:05:00 So it's much colder water. It's coming from the north rather than coming from the south. 20:05:07 I had people from the, East Coast they come out to to Malibu for some conference or something, they'd always want to surf at Malibu. 20:05:19 And so they go out there in their swim trunks and they rent a surfboard and they touch the water and they need to come back in because they are just astounded. 20:05:26 How cold it is. If you look at the people who actually surf off Malibu, even in the summertime, they have wet suits. 20:05:32 Because otherwise they'd freeze to that. But, it's just a very different kind of experience. 20:05:39 But that's why there's that, that bank here is because of that. The cold water coming in and piling up these barrier islands. 20:05:47 Hmm. 20:05:47 And the warm water coming in from the from the south and it that's what creates these barrier islands. 20:05:55 Very little islands are. Really really important to prevent floods and tsunamis and so on so forth. 20:06:03 That's one reason why You see this part out here, this little part out here off of Louisiana, that used to be land within living memory. 20:06:13 People were alive today used to farm this area but it's sinking because of the oil that they're pumping out of the oil and gas, the pumping out of the golf is causing the land to sink because as they po, pump the oil out, the land subsides because there's nothing under it anymore. 20:06:33 And then by the development of the coast here, it's washing away the barrier islands that then wash away the land. 20:06:42 There's a good chance that in by the year 2050 large portions of New, New Orleans, underwater. 20:06:49 Cause we need those barrier islands and we're eroding them. And down in Miami. 20:06:55 It's to make matters worse they're building on these They have these massive, massive skyscrapers. 20:07:02 That just wall off the coast down here and they're destroying the barrier islands that. You might remember the condo. 20:07:14 Hmm. 20:07:12 That collapsed a couple of years ago. Most of. Of, Florida's limestone. 20:07:18 And when they moved millions of people in there and they start pumping out the water for the millions of people to drink or to arrogate and grow sugar canes on so on. 20:07:28 They're hollowing out the the subsurface and then if you combine that with the erosion. 20:07:40 No. 20:07:34 The land just gave way underneath that building. So it creates problems. But you didn't want me to lecture on oceanography. 20:07:46 So I will just leave it at that. There is there is a reason for those barrier islands and it's really via spit out here, the dungeon is spit is the same thing. 20:07:56 It's a It's, has to do with the currents built they spent. Now the dungeon is several 1,000 years old. 20:08:04 It's kind of a remnant of, when the land was, higher during the ice age. 20:08:11 And. It, built a rocky shoal there. That as the. 20:08:21 Actually, this is what's in so much the. The land didn't sink so much as the oceans rose as the ice melted. 20:08:31 And so the spit is just the top of this rocky barrier that was.. By a combination of the glaciers and in the currents. 20:08:41 Created the spit. 20:08:43 So over there. Where I asked you about up there that, was that, what's known as the Outer Banks? 20:08:51 Yes, that's that's the outer banks. 20:08:53 I mean, I've, Oh, okay. Okay, heard of them, but I didn't know where they were. 20:08:56 Yeah, we lived in, We lived in, Columbia, which is, right up here at the top. 20:09:06 And we would drive down there in the wintertime and we could make it down there in about 8 h. 20:09:12 And it was just except for this stupid toll road that they have that. Virginia has between Chesapeake and the North Carolina border to basically just get money from tourists. 20:09:26 It's a really straight shot with no problems and we'd spend a week there and we didn't see anybody and it was quite pleasant after being in. 20:09:34 In the government in the DC area. Kathleen worked for the Pentagon and I work for Noah and You know, every once in a while you just wanted to get away and not kill somebody. 20:09:44 So. 20:09:51 Whatever you're gonna do next month. 20:09:56 Fonts. 20:09:59 Yes. I'm willing to talk about funds. Does anyone else want to talk about phones? 20:10:13 I'm asking because it's I think funds are fascinating, but I used to run, I've run a couple of magazines and I used to run a newspaper and I've been writing things since I was 12, so. 20:10:25 Fonts are fascinating to me, but I can make your eyes glaze over talking about fonts. 20:10:32 I know that Steve specifically wants to talk about font management, but. 20:10:36 What are fonts? 20:10:38 These, your name here, this is a, this is a serif font, a serifont means it doesn't have a serif font. 20:10:49 Sarah font means it doesn't have little squiggly things at the end of it. So Reinhard the name Reinard the on the screen right now. 20:10:53 That's a, Sarah font. A that's a sand syrup on it. 20:11:01 It's French for sands. It doesn't have it. It's French for sands, it doesn't have it. 20:11:05 And Sarah for there's little do hikis at the end of it. The, Times Roman, which is what they use for most newspapers and books and so on. 20:11:08 So forth. Those are serif fonts and serif fonts had these little squiggly things at the end. 20:11:14 To make them easier to read at smaller. Sizes and times roman was developed by the London Times so they they would use less ink and cram more information on a page and use less paper and less ink because those were their expenses. 20:11:33 And so that's what it was designed for. People tend to read words by shape. And a serif font. 20:11:41 Has more shape to it. So you can actually recognize things faster in a serif font than you can in a sand serif font. 20:11:49 But sans serif fonts we use all the time for things like stop sign. Stop sign, no serifs, just stop. 20:11:55 It's an emphatic. And for simple and short instructions, traffic signs and so on and so forth. 20:12:03 We use serif fonts. For the text that you read in books and newspapers, we use. 20:12:07 Seraph and it there's a whole science to it. And a lot of it just has to do with the brain. 20:12:14 If you are literate, you might remember when you were small when you were teaching, you know, cat is CAT, so you look for a C and you look for an A and then you look for T. 20:12:23 You only do that when you're little and you're illiterate. Once you're literate, you look at the shape. 20:12:29 You look at the shape of a word. And you don't read the individual letters anymore and it's much easier to read the shapes if you use serif fonts, So there's a, there's a science to this and a lot of just has to do with how the brain takes in information. 20:12:46 To be literate in Japanese. You need to know, 14,000 individual Japanese characters, you need to know 2 Japanese syllabaries and you also have to know Romanji. 20:13:01 And Romanji is Japanese written in Roman characters. And, there are some things that. You will notice in Japan, you if you see the name of a truck. 20:13:14 On the side of it, it always goes from right to left. Yeah, when it's being printed on like in newspapers, it goes from right to left, not left to right. 20:13:23 One on a truck, it goes from the front to the back. So on the on the right side of the truck, it goes from right to left. 20:13:31 But on the left side of the track, it goes from left to right because it goes from the front of the trunk. 20:13:37 To the back. So. I didn't realize this and I was trying to read whether this bus was going and it was backwards and I thought, well that makes sense but it's written backwards. 20:13:49 Now I was reading the right thing. It's just that they're custom as it goes from the front to the back. 20:13:53 We do the same thing on planes. The American flag on the tail of a plane. Always has the stars in towards aiming towards the front and the stripes are aiming toward the tail. 20:14:07 So on one side a little face the stars beyond the on the upper left and on the other side will be on the upper right. 20:14:12 So they're these kind of conventions that we just use all the time. We don't think about. 20:14:17 But somebody did and those people developed fonts and layout books and such. 20:14:23 And what about the word ambulance on the front of an ambulance? It's usually. 20:14:27 Yes. Yes, I was, I was in Japan once and I, we had a van in Japan because the rule of thumb in Japan is that the smaller car has to back up. 20:14:40 So Kathleen got this van because it's bigger than most of the small Japanese cars. Well, I was in the van and because it's a van it's up higher and I could see in the back window the word toy. 20:14:50 And it scared me to death because it meant there was a Toyota truck behind me and it was such a big truck that just the middle letters spelled the word toy. 20:15:00 And, that's interesting. And then of course, when, when I actually pulled away, it was Toyota written backwards, but it's still going to have that word toy. 20:15:12 Okay. 20:15:11 Front or back. It was, It was a sobering experience. Toyota trucks in Japan are can be really huge. 20:15:20 This was a semi. 20:15:25 Any other ideas for next month other than phones? Cause Steve's gonna win if nobody has a better idea. 20:15:32 I think it's a good subject to I used to do a lot of desktop publishing and as a matter of fact, Seattle Skating Club had that my daughter skated that. 20:15:43 Hosted a pretty large event and I got to make the take all the pictures and make all the guide for it. 20:15:53 Can't remember which call of it. Anyway, you know, that was kind of quite a project. 20:15:58 Okay. 20:15:59 Okay. 20:16:01 I will see you next month. 20:16:04 Sounds good. Thank you. 20:16:06 Thank you. 20:16:06 Thank you. Thank you. 20:16:09 Good night. 20:16:10 Thank you.