November 21, 2023: Web Browsers, fast computers

In November, we talked about web browsers, the World Wide Web, and new, fast computers from Apple.

The first non-Unix web browser was MacWWW (also called Samba), released in December 1992. Mosaic was the first widely used web browser, appearing on Unix X-Window in February 1993 and on the Macintosh in May 1993. Macs soon had more choices: Lynx (a text-only web browser mostly used in science applications, 1993), Netscape Navigator (1994), Opera (the first commercially produced web browser, 1994), Mozilla and MacWeb (1994), OmniWeb (1995), Cyberdog (1996)… One week, a dozen new browsers were announced in a week.

Today, things are both simpler and more complex. Everything has a web interface — computers, phones, tablets, printers, cars, thermostats, refrigerators, watches, doorbells… And on November 21, we will look at some of them. Not all of these, but some:

We also talked about Apple’s new M3-powered laptops and iMacs, and the new macOS Sonoma operating system, as well as new iPhone and iPad operating systems.

We also discussed the joys of visiting the Apple Store at University Village in Seattle, where you can find all available Apple products on display, ready for you to play with them, as well as talk to Apple technicians at the Genius Bar, and get free tutorials on all things Apple. Plus, there is a live tree growing through the ceiling.

Video recording of the November 21, 2023 meeting

Transcript of the November 2023 meeting

Pro tip: use your browser to search for particular words or phrases if you don’t want to read everything.

18:30:40 As usual, we're going to talk about web browsers today, but we're going to start off with questions and answers.
18:30:52 Anyone have any questions?
18:30:53 I wondered if anybody there is used. Vimine or Zimine or It's some sort of a program that claims to use AI to clean up.
18:31:03 That is sharpen the focus of. All black and white photos or any other photos.
18:31:12 Rimini maybe with an R.
18:31:12 I have. I haven't used that. I've tried others and I'm not.
18:31:22 I probably have tried a hundred different others. And I'm not terribly impressed with them, but the way in which I evaluate something that says it's going to sharpened it, I take the photograph at screen resolution.
18:31:36 I apply whatever touches it says it's going to do. And then I blow it up till it's 72 dots per inch, which.
18:31:44 Most of most photographs are 600 to 800 dots per inch you're blown up at 72 dot springs you get a real good view of what the what's actually there.
18:31:53 And I noticed an awful lot of artifacting. It looks like snow around the edges of where It does the enhancements.
18:32:01 And I have yet to find one that does a really good job of that. If you spend a lot of time painstakingly retouching it.
18:32:09 You can do a better job, but when I say ping, this one photograph of my mother that was taken.
18:32:16 The 19 thirties I probably spent 4 or 5 h on that one photo. So it's not something I really want to do unless I have a good reason.
18:32:27 The. The, a lot of them say that they do all kinds of wonderful things, but there are usually side effects.
18:32:36 For example, the program I use the most for photographs is, light room. Adobe Lightroom, Classic.
18:32:44 And it's got this thing called the spot remover where you click on a spot where say you had dirt on the lens or something like that.
18:32:52 And it goes out onto the, onto the photograph and tries to find something that has the same color intensity and then overlays that over your spot.
18:33:02 And to the naked eye, it looks quite good. But if you then turn on. If you change the, histogram of the photograph.
18:33:15 You can easily see where you did that. Kind of touch. Now that's not really an issue for me because nobody's going to look at my photographs with a histogram.
18:33:25 They need the original photo and all that. But when you're trying to do, when you're trying to recover an old print, you run into that kind of thing all the time.
18:33:33 For example, looking at you on the monitor right now. There's a sharp line around your skull because the ceilings, blurred out.
18:33:44 It's focused on you and not on what's behind you. Well if it was trying to improve that if you looked at it real closely you see a whole line of snow right around the edges of where your head is.
18:33:56 And I've yet to find one that really does a good job. Of doing that. There's a professor at University of California San Diego.
18:34:06 Who who's been doing retouching of old. NASA photographs back in the, 1960, s where this film is falling apart.
18:34:15 And he's come up with a really good technique that takes only 5 or 6 h. Per photo.
18:34:23 And using the supercomputer and That's nice to know and we've talked a lot about what he's doing.
18:34:31 I know him because he was in a computer science class I taught many many many years ago. But I haven't found one yet that doesn't have that artifacting.
18:34:43 And it might be fine for your purposes. Photoshop does sharpening, a lot of things do sharpening and that's basically what it's trying to do when it's doing that.
18:34:52 It's called sharpening where you take something that's fuzzy and make it sharper.
18:34:56 But it usually enters, it usually adds quite a bit of artifacting. So I just, I haven't seen anything that I really like yet.
18:35:04 There are some online programs where you upload the photograph and you do that. And I don't like that for 2 reasons.
18:35:13 First of all, they now have a copy of a photograph. And the second is again the, The.
18:35:22 The quality just isn't what I would like it to be. To give you a really clear concrete metric.
18:35:30 This one photograph that I uploaded was 9 and a half megabytes. 19 and a half megabytes.
18:35:38 And when I downloaded this sharpened image, it was 3 MB. So, no.
18:35:42 Yeah. Yeah.
18:35:46 Lots of smoke and mirrors was taking place, but it wasn't really improving the. Photograph.
18:35:53 Thanks.
18:35:54 Lauren, I have a question.
18:35:54 I'm not saying don't look for them. It's just that I haven't found one.
18:35:58 Yes.
18:36:00 Yesterday my wife was opening something in her iPad and something popped up that said it was from system measures dot life.
18:36:09 And then 3 tabs open. One said security error. One said scanning your device in one said bonus.
18:36:18 You ever heard of such a thing?
18:36:20 No, but it's a scam.
18:36:21 I figured it was. Should she just ignore it or?
18:36:27 It, what was she doing at the time?
18:36:31 I was opening a sports. She was opening some ESPN sports thing. And these just popped up as tabs and I immediately.
18:36:44 I couldn't hear all of that, but.
18:36:41 Oh, got out of them. Hansel. She they popped up when she was opening something for ESPN and when they popped up she immediately kind of exited out of them.
18:36:54 Okay, and this was on a on a web browser. IPad.
18:36:56 I pay. It was on in Chrome.
18:37:05 Okay.
18:37:01 Okay, the first thing you should do is just quit the browser. When you quit, when you get a browser on a Mac, when you quit a browser, it pretty much puts everything.
18:37:11 On an iPad's a little bit sneaky because we will quit the browser, but the browser is actually open.
18:37:17 You have there's a trick to actually close something on a on an iPad, but basically the first thing you do is just quit it.
18:37:23 And then the second thing you do is that since it's an iPad, I would immediately open up Chrome and go someplace that you know is safe like.
18:37:31 CNN or the straight Mac user group website or something that you know is safe because that causes it to rewrite its cache.
18:37:41 Okay.
18:37:41 So basically it overwrites junk that it has in it. The most common way to hijack a Mac today There are not I am not aware of any successful exploits with.
18:37:55 With web browsers per se, but you can hijack a Mac, you can hijack older.
18:38:03 M, older Macs, older iPads, older phones with PDFs. That's one reason why it's really not a good idea to be running around with mac OS 10.5 and things like that because they're just They have an ant security updates in years.
18:38:18 And a PDF is actually a it's it's a programming language it's not just a document it's a programming language that you can embed all kinds of instructions in it.
18:38:30 So you can get a PDF form from the IRS that tells you to enable your social security number and if you enter the wrong number of digits, it'll actually come back and say, no, that's not right.
18:38:41 So there's actually programming built into a PDF. And that's one reason why they can be used for taking things over.
18:38:48 With a PDF if you accidentally launch PDF that you don't know. You don't quite know how you manage to get that PDF.
18:38:56 To lunch immediately quit out of it. Because that is a that is a viable vector with a with a web browser on an imac or an iPhone.
18:39:06 Just quit it, but don't worry too much about it because. I'm not aware of any, unless you have a really old iPhone or iPad, not aware of any.
18:39:15 Anything that can actually threaten it through the web browser. If you there is, Apple security list, which I mentioned in past meetings.
18:39:24 That you can subscribe to that. Would that emails you when Apple has security patches out and you'll see if you read through the messages which are I admit a very quick date.
18:39:35 The most commonly thing that's patched is something called Webkit. And I'm going to talk about Webkit tonight because we're talking about browsers.
18:39:44 Webkit is the package of code that Apple uses to build web browsers. Webkit, they've actually published it, so it's now an open source project and you can make your own webcit browser.
18:40:00 But it's also used for drawing things on the screen, a lot of things on the, on the screen.
18:40:07 That are drawn on the screen are actually done with CSS, which is called cascading style sheets, or it's done with HTML.
18:40:15 Graphics. So a lot of stuff that you see on your Mac is actually drawn using HTML.
18:40:22 And because of that, it frequently gets updated because people try and go in through the cracks and see if they can use it compromise machine.
18:40:31 But on older iPads, older Macs, older iPhones, that's not. That's not updated.
18:40:38 And right now, if you have anything that's older than an iPhone 10 or iPhone X as a lot of people think of It's insecure.
18:40:46 It's just insecure and you should have update it. So. But, if it's, if it's web browser, I would just credit because it that's probably all you need to do.
18:41:00 Thank you.
18:40:59 I have a question is probably really quick for you. So I'm doing work on my, I have the Mac Mini and I've 27 inch screen and so I'll have several things open like safari.
18:41:16 Something on safari and then I'll have maybe quicken on and Excel. And then something happens and I don't know what it is that I do but Everything goes wipes off the screen except one of them.
18:41:29 And so then, you know, like say there's only Excel left over and I wanted to see them all at the same time.
18:41:37 Well, then if I go and click on you know, the word or X or Safari, then everything else goes and it goes back and forth.
18:41:46 And I don't know how to.
18:41:45 Are you are you using Sonoma?
18:41:48 Then, no, no. Ventura.
18:41:56 Ventura. I think they might, that might have been into Ventura too. I can't remember what they call it.
18:42:05 Let me go check.
18:42:08 Hmm.
18:42:08 It happens and it and it's so frustrating because it's usually when I'm doing some work balancing some sort of thing.
18:42:15 And then, you know.
18:42:17 Okay, there's there's a thing in. It might have been in Ventura, it's definitely in Sonoma called Stage Manager.
18:42:26 That allows you to have one thing in front and then when you switch to something else, it makes everything else go away.
18:42:34 And so you have another thing in front. And it was designed to help people with their concentration. And to turn that off.
18:42:41 You go into your system preferences. Desktop and dock and uncheck. Stage manager or in my case I say only do certain things in Stage Manager because it's it's designed to help people a lot of people they get lost.
18:42:58 In having a bunch of applications open and it was Apple's attempt to help them. Concentrate, but I like.
18:43:03 Okay, stage managers off. I checked that. And it is off and it has been off. And so.
18:43:11 I don't think that's it.
18:43:13 Well, that was my best guess.
18:43:17 Lawrence, there's been something in the macos for several iterations. That does exactly what she's describing.
18:43:28 I like a clutter desktop.
18:43:25 It's a way to unclutter your desktop. So you can focus. Well, I'm just saying it's there on purpose.
18:43:31 Yeah.
18:43:34 Oh, that.
18:43:32 And I can't remember what it's called, but it's you know, you invoke it and it that does exactly what she's describing.
18:43:39 And if you.
18:43:39 Yeah, if you accidentally push. And the application all the way up to the top of the screen.
18:43:46 The Mac will kind of rearrange your desktop.
18:43:51 That's probably what it is, cause it's usually when I'm moving. Yeah
18:43:55 Yeah, but if you if you just take the if you take the top bar of it and just run all the way to the top of the screen quite often.
18:44:05 It'll create little miniatures of windows and you only see one thing at a time and you're thinking what the heck am I doing but that's actually a feature not a bug.
18:44:12 It
18:44:12 Okay, so it's the top of screen that activates that. I bet you that's what it is.
18:44:17 Thank you.
18:44:16 Yeah. I. Somebody had a question last time and I don't remember who it was and I don't even know if they're on right now.
18:44:27 But their question was, and I didn't notice because it was in the chat and they didn't.
18:44:30 Say it out loud, but. The question was that. They were getting male and they were answering their mail.
18:44:37 And it was being answered from their icloud account and they wanted it to be answered from there. Gmail account and they wanted to know how to stop that.
18:44:47 And the answer is Apple Mail. Has where it says to from. And then down below that and it'll say there's things called account.
18:44:55 If you click on that, if you have multiple accounts, if you click on that, you can pick a different account that the reply will be sent from.
18:45:03 And if you always wanted to be sent from a different account, it normally defaults to the icloud account, but if you go into males preferences, you can select a different account.
18:45:13 To be your default account for replies. And again, I don't remember who asked that, but it was something I didn't even notice until I was looking at the chat transcript that somebody had asked that last time and I didn't answer that.
18:45:27 I frequently will do that because I'm an officer in a homeowners association and people write to my person account for homework issues.
18:45:36 I don't want to reply for my personal account and I want to apply for the Call Winters account.
18:45:39 I'm a church officer and people will. Send me things to my personal account. I really want it to be in the church account.
18:45:46 So I do, I use that fairly often. Somebody will send it to my personal account and I'll either.
18:45:51 Forward it to my other account or I'll just. Pick that other account to send a reply. It happens all the time.
18:46:02 And the reason why I have, I probably have 20 email accounts. The reason for having multiple email accounts is just to kind of tame the madness.
18:46:09 That a whole bunch of people went to contact you for a whole bunch of different things. And you want to have your personal email accounts to use for your family and that's about it and you want to have another one that you use for a business account or for a nonprofit that you work or something like that.
18:46:29 Like as an example, if you were to send me a Mac question to my personal account, I wouldn't reply to it.
18:46:34 Simply because no I just don't do things like that and in fact I want to talk about questions that are sent to the vice president account.
18:46:44 But, again, you can, pick which account it, that you send a reply from and down below it says, what is it?
18:46:54 From 2 subject and then down below that there's a button. It doesn't look like a button.
18:47:00 You click on that, but all of your accounts that you have will pop up and you can say which account will send back the response.
18:47:08 For that. Query and it's just a way to make life easier on on everyone.
18:47:16 About questions. People have been sending email messages to the Strait Mac account. And I'm going to stop answering questions sent to the Strait Mac account.
18:47:30 Unless it's about, you know, when's the next meeting and things like that. And the reason is that I'm getting overwhelmed.
18:47:36 And I, when I, when I talked to you as a group, somebody can ask a question and I'm presenting an answer to multiple people at once.
18:47:43 So that's a good use of my time. If you use the bulletin board, there's a discussion session on the bulletin board.
18:47:51 If you write a question there, I can send and reply and multiple people will see it. But if you send it to my email account, I'm I'm basically answering one person.
18:48:01 One on one. And it's taking up too much of my time. So I'm going to stop doing that.
18:48:06 If you don't have an account on the bulletin board, there are only 2 requirements. One is that you be a paid smug member.
18:48:14 And send and, your your Membership fee and the second one is you have to apply for an account if you don't have already.
18:48:26 You have to go in there. There's a process that says do this and you Do that and do that and I get a message and saying should this person have an account and I say yes and then you have an account.
18:48:37 There's a whole section for our discussion board on the. On the website and it's set up topically for Macs and iOS and privacy and general questions.
18:48:49 It's a, it's a better use of my time to write out of Esperance there than it is to send responses to individuals.
18:48:58 And I'm sorry I have to do that, but I'm not going to go into details, but Kathleen's been quite ill.
18:49:05 And I just am short of time. So, that's, that's how I'd like to proceed.
18:49:12 And if that's unacceptable, you can overthrow me and elect a new leader and Yeah.
18:49:19 Any other questions?
18:49:22 Lawrence? I have one. Okay.
18:49:25 Okay, I'll hit you at a second, Marcy. Yes, go ahead.
18:49:34 I have a problem with
18:49:38 Like when I'm, go to email and choose a new email. And then I'll start to enter a person's name and how to fill in their address, right?
18:49:53 And This today I did did that to a friend that's really in a hurry and slam band my Senate tour.
18:50:02 And it comes back undeliverable. Because every email that they've ever had is in that little drop-down window when you select a new email and,
18:50:19 In my address book, you know, I only have the one address. And is there a way to get rid of those?
18:50:28 Because if it's someone I don't know and 3 or 4 of these come up what I because when you choose it something will be highlighted well it was really fast and I didn't notice it was the wrong one.
18:50:41 But I can't memorize my whole address book of which address isn't. Their current one and proper one.
18:50:48 Is there a way to eliminate those that there any good anymore.
18:50:56 Is this with Apple Mail?
18:50:59 Yes, yes. Okay.
18:51:07 Okay.
18:51:01 Okay, let me. Let me share my screen and see. If I'm, if we're talking about the same thing.
18:51:11 And I don't need you to be here. You can go away. I don't need you to be here.
18:51:21 That's go to mail.
18:51:26 Okay.
18:51:25 Mail has this thing over here called Previous recipients. And if you go here like I used to work for NOAA.
18:51:35 Okay.
18:51:34 So I can type in noah.gov and it'll list.
18:51:39 Or just Noah and then it'll list who's These are people who have a NOAA email address or something.
18:51:48 And if I don't want to talk to that person anymore, I can click on them like Matt Kendall.
18:51:55 Huh.
18:51:52 Partly you don't need him. Remove him from list. So that's how you get rid of those old cached addresses.
18:52:00 Okay, which
18:51:59 You're just going to mail to Windows. Previous recipients.
18:52:05 Okay, so. Just, like I click this little die, right? Oh, you can't see my corner, I guess.
18:52:15 You know, the letter with the check mark in it. When you choose a new. Email when you're in in email.
18:52:23 Letter with a check mark in it.
18:52:27 This little guy, new message, the new message when you click this.
18:52:31 Oh, this, yeah, okay, that's actually a PIN. That's not a check marks.
18:52:32 And yeah. Okay, all right, when when you bring that up and then I can just, you know, I'm sorry because we said emails all the time and I put it our first name and then it comes up with these suggestions.
18:52:47 And I just sent it very quickly and I didn't notice because the 2, she has 2 or 3, 3 from the past and they're very similar.
18:52:56 Yeah, the, and that's, how you go. You're good.
18:52:56 And. Any the only times I have ever had. Something unsenable has been because of that reason.
18:53:06 Yeah.
18:53:06 And I just didn't know how to get rid of all those that were. You know not in use anymore.
18:53:14 So Windows. Previous recipients and what I would I go in there and and like check the new message.
18:53:23 And when it drops down, delete them from there.
18:53:30 Oh.
18:53:27 No, this has nothing to do with the new message. This has to do with with these are stored messages.
18:53:36 Oh. Right.
18:53:34 I don't even know how many there are, but these are stored addresses from people and you just search for the person's name like.
18:53:42 Aaron, Aaron's a guy who works for Apple. I don't want to talk to him anymore.
18:53:47 So I click on that and I say remove from list. But if you have it's I don't want to get rid of Aaron so I'm not going to do that but you have something like I used to live in an area that had Comcast.
18:54:01 And it doesn't show Comcast. I guess it's, I guess it's not doing that.
18:54:10 Okay.
18:54:06 It's doing the person's name. Hmm. Well, anyway. You just, you type in person's name and they should be in alphabetical order.
18:54:15 And you can search them all bytes also by the email address. Maybe that's what I need.
18:54:20 Yes, that's what you do. It depends upon which column you're hitting. But, you, when you delete this and then when you go in to type someone's name, it won't use one of those previous recipients that you've deleted.
18:54:34 But otherwise it just keeps them because a lot of people don't bother. I know a lot of people who don't have an address book at all.
18:54:43 Yeah.
18:54:42 What they do is they're just constantly. Going to old messages and replying to them, which is a terrible way to do things, but.
18:54:49 Yes.
18:54:51 But getting rid of the old, addresses, that's how you do it. You're going to previous recipients.
18:54:55 Google has a way to do that as well in Gmail. Little bit, little bit. Puzzling to figure out how to do it.
18:55:04 But My Homeowners Association, for example, we switched offices with people. So I'm in a position.
18:55:13 I used to be the vice president, I'm the secretary. And since you're sending it to Secretary at, sanction drugs.
18:55:19 It was putting the old person's name there. So I had to get rid of the preview.
18:55:23 I had to get rid of my own secretary account in previous recipients. Current address there, otherwise we kept on saying it was coming from this other guy and he's not, he's not me.
18:55:34 So, but that's way to do it. You go in and get rid of previous recipients.
18:55:39 It's a common question. It's just that a lot of people A lot of people can articulate it as well as you did.
18:55:46 So that's why when you when you started down that path I said, oh yes, I've heard this before.
18:55:51 Okay.
18:55:51 Washington Apple Pie, which is a huge user group, on, on the West on the East Coast that I still am an officer of.
18:55:58 And at Sandy, your user group, at their peak, yeah, each of them had over 5,000 members.
18:56:04 And I would do the question to answer. And I, I, I created a rule. That people were not allowed to ask email questions until the last 3 min.
18:56:15 Because otherwise if somebody started with an email question, every single question. That for that whole Q&A was about email.
18:56:22 So. Email puzzles, puzzles a lot of people.
18:56:25 Thank you. For asking that question though, that's a very good reminder because I keep forgetting how to do that.
18:56:33 I don't know what time it is.
18:56:36 It is. Okay, we got 4 more minutes for questions. Anybody have a question? Oh, Marcia, you had a question.
18:56:42 Your microphone's off.
18:56:46 Last, last month I, told you I was having trouble with Gmail.
18:56:52 And you said that they had, they were having some problems. Well, I'm still having problems with Gmail and it's Interesting that I, I send something and it looks like it goes off.
18:57:06 And then it reappears. And, then when I try to log out. I wind up with the stack.
18:57:22 Okay.
18:57:15 Of emails that have not gone anywhere. And so I'm trying to deal with them. And if they won't go Gmail, I'll try with one of the other options and it looks like they go.
18:57:28 But they don't. They keep reappearing the same emails keep reappearing. And I might say that I don't have this problem on my phone.
18:57:38 I just have it on my desktop.
18:57:41 Okay, on your desktop, how are you sending the Gmail messages?
18:57:46 I just push send, you know, I
18:57:48 No, I'm in. Are you using Apple Mail or are you using a browser or what?
18:57:53 Oh, Safari.
18:57:55 Okay, what you need to do is go into the sent mail folder. In Gmail.
18:58:04 Right. Right.
18:58:04 It'll it's one of those folders on the left-hand margin. And see if it's in the sent mail.
18:58:12 If it's sent mail, then it really was sent. And it's not there, then go into the draft.
18:58:18 Folder and see if it's in draft. Sometimes the only way to sometimes you might create a.
18:58:24 And voluntary QAQ means things are in a line. You're at a stop light and you can't go into the car in front of you goes and so on so forth.
18:58:34 And if one of them stuck, you're all of you are stuck. I have this happened to me on the ferry.
18:58:38 Last week one of the cars the driver didn't come back when the when the ferry arrived so everybody in that line was stuck for a while.
18:58:45 And you might have to just go through your Drass folder and find which one is stuck and delete it.
18:58:53 And if you need that message so that you can try again, copy the contents of the message, but then delete the message out of draft.
18:59:00 And that might get rid of the clog. But, quite often if it's. If it's if it's stuck, it'll just it'll just back up everything behind it.
18:59:10 But check also in your sent mail when you think you've sent it. Go into sent mail because it won't be in sentimental unless.
18:59:16 Gmail really, really, really did send it. I had a. Somebody who sent me like 2 dozen copies of the same email, I kept on saying, and they was getting increasingly frantic.
18:59:27 I keep on sending you this email and it's not going anywhere. Oh wait didn't work again.
18:59:34 Oh there's this long chain. It was all one message and they were all coming to me. Why he didn't think they were going? I don't know.
18:59:38 But the way to check is to look in the sent mail folder.
18:59:40 Okay.
18:59:40 Maybe she's got her own email address in the CC and maybe it's actually a copy coming back to her.
18:59:48 Sometimes Gmail will get, get it stuck because it doesn't like the validation format.
18:59:54 Because there's something wrong and the domain name or or the moons in the wrong place or whatever.
19:00:01 Okay.
19:00:02 Most of the time Gmail has a really good reason for not sending it, but sometimes it is.
19:00:05 It is puzzling. Like I had one in which I was replying all and one of the message, one of the addresses was invalid, so it was stuck in draft.
19:00:13 Because hey, this second email address that you're in this reply all is invalid. So it was stuck there until I went and got rid of it.
19:00:23 Okay, well, it's not in sent and it's not in drafts. So, yeah.
19:00:30 I'm just incredibly frustrated having sent the same email thing. At least 20 times.
19:00:38 Is it to the same address?
19:00:39 Yeah, to my husband, you know, I kind of know his address, so I know it's okay.
19:00:48 Okay.
19:00:48 Yeah, yeah, I'd like to blame it on him.
19:00:45 I don't know, he could be doing something really weird. Yeah, that was my best guess.
19:00:56 Sorry.
19:00:58 Okay.
19:01:00 I went to, oh yes, there's our president. Your microphone is, is, muted.
19:01:08 Hello there.
19:01:08 Hello there, how are you?
19:01:11 I personally not doing all that great, but you know, details.
19:01:18 It's not me, it's Kathleen.
19:01:15 Oh, well I'm sorry about that. I hope you feel better. Okay. Oh, that's too bad.
19:01:24 Sorry about that.
19:01:26 Yeah.
19:01:26 Did you have a nice time at the Apple store? I know you went to the favorite one. Based on your
19:01:31 I was there for only like 5 min and I'm gonna show 2 pictures that I took there.
19:01:39 One of is going to be the tree, yes.
19:01:41 Yeah.
19:01:36 I'm sure it's the tree, right? Thank you. Well, welcome everybody. I don't see any new names.
19:01:50 So I just welcome everybody back. I have nothing really. New to say.
19:01:59 I'll just hand it over to the treasurer and she can go over them. The money that has I guess some stuff came in.
19:02:07 Well, we have 2 checks that came in in the last couple of months. For. And, still with those 2 checks.
19:02:20 Well, thank you very much for those who send them in. And the balance right now is $2,000 $32,032 and 66 cents.
19:02:31 And I'm going to spend some of that. So.
19:02:34 Okay. Let me know how much.
19:02:35 I just keep on forgetting to. I forget to keep on forgetting to send you the invoice, but.
19:02:41 Okay.
19:02:43 Any other business we want to attend to?
19:02:48 One thing that, We should think about is elections because We really should have elections every year.
19:02:58 Yeah.
19:02:59 Just, to, you know, promote democracy and all that. And the second thing I want you to think about right the second is are we going to have a meeting in December and if so, what are we going to talk about?
19:03:10 So. Unless we have other things that that I want to get on with my presentation.
19:03:18 My mom and I had actually talked about that and we both thought that it might be nice to not have it in December since it's so close to Christmas.
19:03:28 Yeah, I was thinking something similar, but. I leave it up to the collective wisdom. We don't have to have a decision now.
19:03:36 Just something I want you to think about. Okay. I'm going to share my screen so that I can talk about.
19:03:43 . 19
19:03:44 Some other things first before we get to browsers but Gonna share my screen here.
19:03:52 And.
19:03:58 Oh, that's not what I want. This is what I want to do.
19:04:09 Apple introduced some new. Computers that started the month. Oh, at the end of last month, and they called it scary fast.
19:04:18 And the reason I called it scary fast. Is the new computers have a new chip. The M one chip was the first Apple silicon stick chip and that was followed by the M 2 and now we have the M 3.
19:04:31 No.
19:04:27 And this first graph, which I actually think is interesting. Shows the power of the M 3 the relative performance of the power of the F 3 compared to a 12 PC, core PC laptop.
19:04:41 And you see that it exceeds the power of this 12 core PC laptop. But the important thing is it's using only one quarter the power.
19:04:49 And Apple kept on. Emphasizing this because by use by having more power but using less electricity The battery runs longer and their new, depending upon the model that you get, some of their new MacBooks have a 20 h.
19:05:08 Battery life which means by the end of the day you're going to be really really really tired before your laptop gives gives up.
19:05:16 But they were 3 different models. M 3 and M 3 pro and an M 3 max the M 3 is the base model, the M 3 pro has more.
19:05:26 Stop and the m 3 max is on the high end They came out with new versions of the Mac or Book Pro and.
19:05:35 And I don't remember which size they. 14 and 16, I don't remember the details.
19:05:41 You can see it on the Apple side. And they also came up with a new versions of the imac, 24 inch.
19:05:49 And that's something I wanted to talk about because I played with both of these very briefly at the Apple Store at.
19:05:56 A university village. Last week, week before last. And I was impressed with the speed of them, but.
19:06:05 What was I have been saying for some time that people say I'm I'm waiting until I come up with another 24 inch imac.
19:06:13 I am convinced that Apple is not going to come up with a 24 inch imac. Because they don't need to.
19:06:20 If you really want a 24 and by the way Town for pound, the imac is a better deal than a MacBook.
19:06:26 Thank you.
19:06:28 It has it has more power because it's got more room for stuff in it. And it's less money.
19:06:36 The the MacBooks because they're compressing everything into a tiny space cost more money than a desktop machine.
19:06:42 And the the IMAX are really a bargain, giving them out. Of course, If you get the the IMAX coming 2 basic versions one has 2 ports in the back and one has 4 ports in the back.
19:06:59 If you get the one with 4 ports in the back. And you get it with 16 gigs of of RAM and a terabyte drive.
19:07:08 You will blow away any 24 inch, twenty-seven-inch imac that was ever made.
19:07:14 And if you don't, if you think the screen is too small, even though it shows more pixels than that 27 inch screen.
19:07:25 Dead. If you think you still need more space, you you plug into one of those 4 ports in the back and you set up another monitor.
19:07:32 It will support multiple monitors. You just plug another monitor into it. It's a little bit tricky because it only has USBC ports in the back, but it's not that difficult to get a monitor.
19:07:43 To plug back into the back of the I. And if you don't want to go that route, the other route is to go get a Mac Mini the M 2 Mac minis are very very very powerful.
19:07:57 And Just go out and get any monitor you want and get your own keyboard mouse plug it into the Mac Mini and you have something that's more powerful than any 27 inch imac.
19:08:11 Ever was. So that's my little spiel on why you should pay attention to these new Macs.
19:08:16 I'm really.
19:08:21 You really shouldn't be waiting forever to upgrade an old Mac. You, the, the security, the convenience, so on so forth of the new max is just.
19:08:30 It's not really comparable. And this is where I was when I was playing around with it.
19:08:37 This is the, University Village Apple Store in Seattle. It's about I don't know, a mile from the Champus.
19:08:48 It's on there. It's about across some ball fields and so on and so forth.
19:08:54 There's Lake Washington and then there's the university village. And you can sit on these little cube things here and watch this giant screen.
19:09:02 I only have part of it here. When they installed this screen, it was the largest LCD screen in the state of Washington.
19:09:10 I'm sure that somebody come up 1 one. Bigger than for now, but. They'll do demos and run commercials and teach classes and you sit on these stools and and it is projected on the screen.
19:09:28 The other thing that I like about the store and it's very nice clean layout. This was a Tuesday or Wednesday?
19:09:36 And there were a lot of people in the store. It wasn't a holiday or anything in particular.
19:09:43 They were just a lot of people in store. And I was in there for Just a few minutes and 3 different people.
19:09:49 All men came up. Wanted a one of the new 16 inch the larger Mac books. With the space black.
19:09:58 Finish and bought it on the spot didn't even test drive it they just came in blocked down their credit card walked out with a machine.
19:10:06 Which cracked me up. I think I think most women shoppers would have at least tried it before.
19:10:13 Walking down the store with one. But I did test them in the store. I have a standard test that I do where I take the photo library that they have on the demo machine and I export it and see I see how many seconds that takes.
19:10:26 Yeah.
19:10:25 And it doesn't take that v. These things are blinding that fast. And then I render a couple movies.
19:10:34 And, They're really, really fast. The other thing that I like about the store is this tree.
19:10:41 This tree is growing up through the center of the store and it was raining so if I blow this up you can actually see the raindrops on the on the leaves of the tree.
19:10:51 It's just this glass box open die at the top. And the tree has grown up through the roof.
19:10:57 And it just, it, It gives me great joy to go in and talk to the train.
19:11:06 So I'm I'm a bit strange.
19:11:06 Yeah.
19:11:11 The topic tonight is web browsers. And the first thing I want to talk about is the.
19:11:19 This is not the one I wanted.
19:11:24 This is the one I want. So we'll make you go away for a second. This is a cartoon by one woman named Julia Evans.
19:11:34 Who does cartoons for the. For Linux users and It doesn't make any difference that time.
19:11:42 That it's not she's a Linux user because this is applies to all of them. A lot of the things, lot of our cartoons also apply to Mac because the underlying operating system and the Mac is Unix.
19:11:53 In a URL this first part she calls it a scheme but it's really a protocol. The protocol tells you what kind of protocol it is.
19:12:02 A web browser could have something called FTP, which is file transfer protocol to talk to a file server or a bunch of other protocols.
19:12:11 HTTPS means it's talking to an encrypted web server. So that part there is the protocol.
19:12:17 This part here where it talks about the port. Is another way of just talking about the protocol. HTTPS means encrypted and port 4 43 is the port reserved for encrypted websites.
19:12:29 If this was HTTP without the S, the port would be port 80. And you don't need to remember this.
19:12:36 It's just that HTTP. With no S means that it's unencrypted, anything you're sending, anybody on the planet can read that.
19:12:45 HTTPS, it creates an encrypted tunnel. It's not really a tunnel.
19:12:50 It's an encrypted conversation between you and that website. So that's that first part is a protocol.
19:12:56 The second part is the domain. The domain is. The name of the service and then the type of the service.
19:13:03 Dot com means commercial doesn't have to be, but that's the. That's the.
19:13:10 That's the tradition.com means commercial. And example cat is the name of the that particular server there.
19:13:20 And then the paths part. Is something I want to talk about. The path, this is the path.
19:13:27 To something. So the there's this one has cats and then this query string is a telling the database that you're looking for light gray.
19:13:38 Banana shaped cats, I guess. But the thing after the query string, thing after this question mark is the query string.
19:13:47 And I mentioned this because I want to show you a couple things. And we're gonna push this down out of the way for a second.
19:13:54 And.
19:14:01 I thought I had set one aside. I don't see it right this second.
19:14:15 Yeah, I can't find it.
19:14:18 So why don't you go back over there?
19:14:26 We're going to go to the straight Mac.
19:14:33 Youtube page. And straight back.
19:14:41 Straight Mac has a YouTube page. And click here, take it to our YouTube page. And we're going to click on this is last month's.
19:14:51 Meeting and we're gonna Stop it right there and we're going to say share this. Yeah So here's the URL that it's going to copy.
19:15:00 I'm going to copy this and I'm going to paste it into Word. Because I want to blow it up.
19:15:07 Yes, yes.
19:15:13 Here is the string. That leads you to that. Video. Gonna blow it up a little bit bigger so you can say says HTTPS means it S means it's encrypted.
19:15:27 U 2.be. PE is the known domain name for Belgium, but you don't really need to know that.
19:15:37 YouTube, and then here is the address. Well, I'm going to take this address. And I'm gonna paste it into the browser.
19:15:49 And it's gonna go to that same video. Well, I'm going to now get rid of everything after this question mark.
19:16:02 And. Paste that into the browser.
19:16:12 And it goes to the same video without all that stuff afterwards. So my question to you. Is what is all that stuff?
19:16:21 . After
19:16:26 What is all that stuff that's out here?
19:16:32 Anybody want to speculate?
19:16:39 Yeah.
19:16:38 Specific file where it's kept or something.
19:16:42 Well, it depends upon who they are in the case of YouTube, I could actually play, I could move to someplace in this.
19:16:52 Video. And say I want to grab it from that point and I say share and it's going to give me a different URL.
19:17:02 And then if I send that to someone, you notice that it's after the craze constraints change.
19:17:09 If you paste this into my browser, it'll go to that portion of the movie. It'll get the other parts and it'll go to the other parts and it'll go to that portion at 59 min into the video.
19:17:19 So that's what the in this case, that's what it's doing. It's saying that I want you to go to the video that's at this location.
19:17:28 But I want you to go to this point in the video. And for this first one, the the point it happens to be the start.
19:17:38 But so that's what this query string is. It's sending an additional information to the to the server to tell it something.
19:17:46 However, quite often everything after that question mark is used to tag you. It's called a hashtag and it helped helps identify.
19:17:57 So if you've if you've been on the Washington Post site and you click on an ad the when it takes you to the page, it takes you to the server that is advertising like.
19:18:07 Every time I go to Washington Post, I'm almost always offered a a a video of buying a jet fighter plane.
19:18:16 And so for the heck of it, I always go to them because you know, I want to know what the latest in jet fighters that Locky wants to sell me.
19:18:23 But when it does that, everything after this question mark is telling Lockheed that This guy who's looking at jet fighters came from the Washington Post.
19:18:34 So it's tanking me and it's telling them about me. And that's why you kind of want to be a little bit careful about the parts that are after this question.
19:18:43 Mark, if you want to maintain your privacy. Go through and delete that stuff before you send that on to somebody.
19:18:51 Like you have a. I had a friend who works for the National Institutes of Health and she was talking to someone about sexual abuse and she went to the site that had articles about sexual abuse but she was very careful to strip off that stuff because As a government employee, she couldn't be recommending this.
19:19:10 Non-government site. So she was stripping that off so the witness say they was coming from a government employee.
19:19:16 So there you want to pay a little bit of attention to the things that appear after that. Question mark.
19:19:22 And for some things such as newspaper articles, The newspaper article may not work if you strip off. The.
19:19:32 Oh, go away.
19:19:35 Delete. The URL may not work if you strip off that hashtag because that hashtag might actually take you to a place in the database of the of the newspaper site.
19:19:46 So it doesn't always help, but you want to be a little bit suspicious about the when you see a URL it's got a question mark.
19:19:52 I had, there's a site called Space Technology or something like that. That every time I go there and I see a page I like and I copy it and send it to somebody.
19:20:06 The real URL is less than a line long, but it sends about 8 or 10 lines worth of code.
19:20:10 And that's because this space technology site, that's how they get their revenues for advertising. So they want people to know that you went to their site and I was looking at this particular page that had this company's advertisement on it even though I'm not interested in the advertisement.
19:20:26 So you want to be a little bit careful about that. And that's why I was telling you about the about what those parts of the
19:20:35 Of the URL. So. This is the protocol and that is the name of the server and this part here.
19:20:44 Before the question, Mark, that's the path where that stuff is stored on the on the website.
19:20:53 Okay.
19:20:50 And to give you some examples, we'll go to the. Straightenax site.
19:20:57 And can we blow this up a bit? If I.
19:21:20 Okay.
19:21:12 If I look at home, you'll notice that home out here at the where the URL is there's nothing after that but if I click on blog It changes this and now it the path says blog and if I say useful things.
19:21:26 It says useful things and so on and so forth. So depending upon what I. Click on, it actually changes the path there.
19:21:34 And on useful things, if I take, I click on actually, I don't want that.
19:21:43 I'm gonna go to articles. Here's an article on troubleshooting windows. I am as by by what?
19:21:54 Chat G PT does if it was Chaucer and it says Straight Mac.
19:21:59 Dot org slash article slash troubleshooting windows in the style of Chaucer. That's the That's the path to this article.
19:22:06 So that's and then mentioning that because a lot of people use the web all the time and they never really think about.
19:22:11 What it is that they're doing. So I wanted to, I went in to mention that.
19:22:18 And. Another thing I wanted to mention about a lot of people I know store their passwords in their web browser.
19:22:28 And so I wanted to show you this cartoon. Which I I really like this cartoon.
19:22:39 Okay.
19:22:44 Yeah.
19:22:49 And having said that, let us get out of here and go into. A browser window and do I store passwords in my browser.
19:23:02 And the answer is yes, there's a whole section here. I type passwords if I enter to my my password to my machine here, it would list all kinds of sites that I stored the password in my browser.
19:23:17 However, having said that I do that, I'm very careful about what I do. I do not store bank passwords.
19:23:25 I do not store buying anything having to do with money. Bill Paine, I do not store those kind of passwords.
19:23:32 So what kind of passwords do I have? I have subscription to the Washington Post and went to the New York Times.
19:23:36 I don't like typing the password in every time. So I store that in the browser.
19:23:43 I go to the New York Times and it just lets me in. It tells them, hey, this is Lawrence Charters and let's be in there.
19:23:47 And for things like, things that I don't spend money on. That are convenient.
19:23:53 Washing amplify user group, my password is stored in my browser so I can log into this without doing anything.
19:24:02 But anything that involves money. You should not store it in the browser, you should store it in a password manager.
19:24:08 And the one that I recommend is one called One Password. So, just kind of mentioning some of these things along the way.
19:24:18 And I want now talk about browsers and the browsers I'm going to talk about are I have a list here that I made.
19:24:29 I got to do them very quickly. Because there are a number of them. First one is Safari.
19:24:37 Oh, here's where I had that. I know I started someplace. This is Safari.
19:24:43 This is the latest version of Safari that comes with Sonoma. And with the new safari, you can have profiles.
19:24:51 This is a profile of. For me when I'm looking at things that I went to look at.
19:24:55 But I can also have a profile. For smug when I switch to the smug profile These are things that I went to look at when I'm.
19:25:06 Doing. Smug meetings. Or if I went to Look at news. This one has a bunch of news sites.
19:25:17 Or if I want to, this one by the way is provided by Apple. I didn't do anything like that.
19:25:21 And then I have one for. Trinity, the church that I have. And it shouldn't be blank.
19:25:31 Oh, I see. It's blank because it's trying to do the wrong thing. There's Trinity's, YouTube account.
19:25:37 And. Trinity website. So there are different profiles for doing things.
19:25:47 And why do I have different profiles? If you are doing monthly bills, You probably want to have, you'll probably only want to see things that have to do with your monthly bills.
19:25:56 You don't want to. See things that. Aren't associated with monthly bills.
19:26:01 And if you are if you are still working, you might have go in every morning and you open up the same web pages every time.
19:26:09 So that's really nice to, that's really nice to have all those things that once you just store them in a profile and profiles and I should have showed you how to do that.
19:26:16 And I
19:26:17 You come into Safari, you go to settings. And you go to. Profiles and you can set up.
19:26:25 Profiles. So add a new profile, click this button. And you can give it a symbol and.
19:26:33 Okay.
19:26:31 All kinds of different, give it a particular color if you want to. And then start creating profiles.
19:26:37 In that way that set of tabs will be unique to that. Functions and you don't have to.
19:26:44 Create that you don't have to open up those tabs every time or you don't have to open up those tabs when you want to do something else entirely.
19:26:51 And Safari is the default browser on the Mac as well as on the iPhone and and the, iPad.
19:26:59 And the underlying technology that is used in, in. Safari is called Webkit. And I mentioned this.
19:27:10 Because I have a site that tells me something about the underlying technologies. Browsers and the next browser I'm going to look at.
19:27:20 Is Chrome.
19:27:24 And years ago, I set up. A page on the Washington Apple Pi site. With a with a.
19:27:36 I called it the paranoia page because people were concerned about cookies. So I click on the paranoia page and it tells me.
19:27:42 Okay.
19:27:42 What my browser is telling the website that is dealing with and in this case it says this browser says it's Mozilla.
19:27:54 Mozilla is the code name for the original Netscape browser. Mozilla 5.
19:27:59 Macintosh Intel. I'm running this on an Apple Studio, which does not have an Intel chip in it.
19:28:05 Intel, Mac OS 1010.15 point 7 so it's actually a fairly old profile here.
19:28:13 Apple Webkit 5.3 for 37.3 6 which is old. KHTM L which is a type of encoder like gecko.
19:28:24 Gecko is the deciding thing here. Gecko is the technology. That Chrome uses for rendering web pages.
19:28:33 But you'll notice the first thing that listed was Apple Webkit. Now, when Chrome first came out, it was built using Apple's Webkit.
19:28:43 So it was using Apple's code to create the Chrome browser. Now they use Gecko.
19:28:45 But it's still backward compatible with Webkit. And then it tells you that it's Chrome.
19:28:51 So, and this Safari 5.3 7, that just. Again, it's just saying, hey, I'm like Safari.
19:28:59 But it's not Safari, it's actually Chrome. Then, oh, Chrome was the first one, by the way, that had profiles.
19:29:07 If I look at This is what happens when I bring up Chrome. It tells me various different, profiles that I can use.
19:29:14 So if I click on, so if I click on straight Mac, it only does straight back things. Trinity is only my church things.
19:29:19 It's, They came up to profiles before Apple did. I like the way that Apple did it though.
19:29:28 Firefox The next one I want to show you and Firefox takes forever to load. And then it comes up with a wonderful commercial saying that I'm covered in the privacy and so on and so on.
19:29:41 If I go to Firefox to that page, again, it tells me the same kind of things.
19:29:47 Mozilla, Macintosh, Intel. DECKO Firefox is now using
19:29:58 That you the gecko engine is is is actually Mozilla's, engine. Sorry, I said to Chrome, but it's actually.
19:30:07 Mozellas and saying I'm using my own rendering in engine for Firefox. I rarely use Firefox.
19:30:15 Firefox at 1 point was one of the, it was the leading web browser out there, but right now it's something like 1.8%.
19:30:23 They got into some political wars and said that we're not going to support these technologies because they're run by bandits and so on and so forth.
19:30:31 And one of the things that we did not have for a long time, they were not supporting JPEG.
19:30:36 So your camera phone takes pictures in JPEG. You could not display it in Firefox because Firefox said it was evil.
19:30:43 So they kind of knocked themselves out of the. Of the running but I still use Firefox because there's sometimes I just want to see if Firefox works.
19:30:54 Then I'm going to start getting into things that you probably haven't played with. Microsoft Edge.
19:30:58 Microsoft Edge is the browser that app that, that Microsoft ships with Windows and they have a version for the Mac.
19:31:08 They also have a version for the iPad. So you can run. You can run, Microsoft Edge on, on your iPad if you wanted to.
19:31:17 Okay.
19:31:18 Again, if I go to this page, again, it says Bozilla, Macintosh, Intel, Apple Webkit, KTML, like Gecko, which again is Mozilla.
19:31:27 And like Chrome and it mentioned Safari. So what is edge done in edge was originally done in Webkit as well.
19:31:37 Most recently they started using chromium, which is a version of of Google Chrome. Given the choice between using Microsoft Edge and Google Chrome, if you want to be very secure, Microsoft Edge actually has the edge.
19:31:53 In security over Google Chrome. And that's because Google Chrome has built in a lot of things to allow them to capture information about the user.
19:32:03 And so just. Google Chrome's not quite as secure as Microsoft edges. Just as an FYI.
19:32:13 The next one I want to talk about is Duck Duck Go. And that Duck Go comes with demonstration.
19:32:20 I'm going to search for information about me.
19:32:25 Gotta type in Lawrence I Charters.
19:32:30 2 things to note. I'm typing this in quotation marks. When you type it in quotation marks you're telling the search engine search for this and, and it's not going to work because I miss both charges.
19:32:44 It'll look for exactly what you're telling it to. So I'm typing it in quotation marks so it won't look for Lawrence and separately look for charters.
19:32:54 It'll look for Lawrence I charters and if it doesn't contain all of those things it won't show it.
19:32:58 And I'm typing this in duck. Go. And I'm. Come back and I say images.
19:33:07 And it says these are all images that have something to do. With Lawrence Charters. Now you'll notice there are a lot of sailboats and honest truth about some football player, Scrabble games, all kinds of things.
19:33:23 I'm going to push this off to the side and then going to launch safari. And I'm going to tell it the same thing.
19:33:31 Search for Lawrence. I forgot the quotation mark.
19:33:44 Yeah, yeah, we know. Yeah, yeah, I know.
19:33:52 You'll see that you have a very different set of images. This is about Lawrence Charters.
19:34:00 This is about Lawrence Charters. These most of these have nothing to do with me. But.
19:34:11 This and I can even say see more and it's got just pages and pages and pages pictures almost all of these are either I took the photograph or it's about me or it's a picture of me.
19:34:24 So this was much, much more accurate. And that's one of my leading, that's one of my 2 big complaints about duck. Go.
19:34:32 A lot of people like Duck Go because they if you've seen the advertisements on TV they protect your privacy and so on so forth.
19:34:39 All of what they say is true, but what they don't tell you is that they also gives you very inaccurate results.
19:34:45 Because it's very incomplete. You get much more accurate. And faster results. Using almost any other browser.
19:34:55 So I, people, you know, there, I'm really afraid that they're going to steal everything about me.
19:35:01 And my first question to somebody who's trying to protect their privacy is, do you use the same password for everything?
19:35:07 99% of the people use the same password for everything and yet they're paranoid about Google stealing they're stealing them blind.
19:35:15 Thank you.
19:35:15 The security issue is the fact that they don't have unique passwords for everything. Every single website I use.
19:35:22 I use a different password for that website. Every single one, even the ones I don't care about.
19:35:27 And if that's that's a good security measure, but if you think duck duck go can spare you from.
19:35:34 From somebody stealing your identity, no, it really can't. That has to do with your habits.
19:35:40 So I'm not, Duck, Duck goes slow, it's incompatible with a lot of things and it's just not very accurate.
19:35:47 So, they'll probably sue me for saying all that, but. I'm not a big fan of duck.
19:35:58 Hmm.
19:35:56 Another one that's getting a lot of attention right now and if you guys sign up for it you'll get a lot of attention too because they send me at least one or 2 emails a week.
19:36:06 Is something called arc. And arc is nice because it's got these nice little tabs and you can do write notes into it.
19:36:14 It'll give you tutorials on how to use it and all kinds of things It's nice you can customize it in all kinds of different ways.
19:36:26 I give it new backgrounds and It's got a movie built into it that tells you how to use the different features.
19:36:32 All kinds of cool things. It's not particularly fast. And sometimes it crashes. I hardly ever see any other browser crash.
19:36:44 But I have to admit that I'm intrigued with what they did. And arc is a brand new browser came out in 2023 so this is hot new stuff.
19:36:55 Oh, I want to tell you about the ages of these. Safari dates back to 2,003.
19:36:59 Chrome was created in 2,008. Firefox goes back to 2,004 Microsoft edges from 2,015 Duck, go the browser is 2022.
19:37:13 So. Is a new one and it's just interesting enough that I'm going going to be paying more attention to it.
19:37:24 Another one is icab. Now you'll notice the first thing that Icab comes up is there's a A shareware please tells you to please purchase a license.
19:37:33 And that's about as far as I'm going to get. Because I haven't purchased a license.
19:37:37 But Icab is has a couple things going for it. It's the oldest browser out there.
19:37:44 It's been around since 1,999. It's older than Safari and any of the rest of them.
19:37:49 The other nice thing about Icab is if you have really old Mac floating around and you want a currently supported browser.
19:37:57 Pay the shareware fee and use Icab because it's for some of these older machines it might be the only thing that can safely run on them.
19:38:10 Another one. Relatively new one. Actually, no it's not. It's a relatively new to the Mac.
19:38:15 Okay.
19:38:18 And
19:38:21 If I can get it to come up. This is called maxthon. It's created by a developer out of Singapore.
19:38:32 It's been around since 2,002. And. I told you this safari is built upon Webcred.
19:38:41 Chrome used to be built on Web. Now it's built on something called Firefox uses gecko.
19:38:49 Mozilla, Microsoft Edge uses Webkit and Chromium. Duck. Go uses Webkit. It's kind of interesting.
19:38:58 It's built upon Apple's technology. Arc is using Blink and Web Tit. And I tab is using I tab there, kind of unique and building to their own.
19:39:08 And Max Laun from 2,002 uses Blink, which is another version of Chromium and Webkit.
19:39:14 And it's, it's, it's not a bad looking browser. The, my big objection is that it doesn't do anything.
19:39:26 Not opposed to it, but it doesn't do anything. Nice for me. This next one I really like the browser not because I've ever used it because I refuse to sign up for your account.
19:39:38 You have to have a preferring count in order to use Puffin. But I happen to really like puffins.
19:39:41 I don't know if you are aware of it, but, Protection Island in the middle of Swim Bay.
19:39:47 As one of the few nesting grounds for puffins in the continental United States. So, is probably a wonderful browser, but I refuse to give them any credentialing information.
19:39:57 So. That's as far as I got with that. But it's their, Their claim to fame is that it's a very secure browser and it's paranoid about.
19:40:07 Going to different places. And.
19:40:12 Max line uses Blinken and Webkit. Water Fox as the name might suggest. Based upon Firefox.
19:40:21 It's a just kind of a different. Somebody rolled their own version of.
19:40:29 Of Firefox. And it's not a bad browser, but there's nothing particularly, again, it's nothing particularly.
19:40:37 Interesting about it. So. It does tell you that you asked you to confirm before you close things, which is not kind of nice.
19:40:47 Brave is another one that's gotten quite a bit oppressed because it's supposed to be secure.
19:40:54 What I don't like things I don't like. BREAVE is actually fairly slow and since Ray sometimes complains about the wrong things that it says pages are insecure when they're not.
19:41:04 But again, brave, they're claim to fame is that they say that it's, protects your privacy and security, but It's not that.
19:41:14 It's not that fast and it might be secure, but it's, relatively slow.
19:41:23 Vivaldi. Is kind of an interesting thing. Vivaldi came out in 2,015 making it.
19:41:31 Fairly old in terms of browsers but it has all kinds of neat features. For things like you can write notes on it and a bunch of other things.
19:41:42 It's really a nice browser. The, you can use it for, for a message reader and all kinds of things.
19:41:49 What I don't like about it is that I really would prefer not to have all of these things in one red browser.
19:41:55 I would prefer to have a separate note taking app and and whatnot. Another one I want to show you by not showing you anything at all is the Tor browser.
19:42:03 This is the Tor browser. The Tor browser is funded in part by the Bye the, US Department of State.
19:42:12 And it's very secure because when it when you talk to Tor you don't really talk to Tor directly.
19:42:18 You don't really talk to a website directly. You talk to. You talk to.
19:42:27 It's not the way just fell straight back. That's not gonna work.
19:42:36 Yeah.
19:42:36 Yeah, it's a wrong one.
19:42:43 One thing I don't like about Tor is that it's really, really, really slow because when you launch tour, it immediately goes out to this Tor cloud and then when you have a request the request goes to the Tor cloud from the Tor cloud to whatever you're requesting back to the Tor cloud and then to you.
19:43:00 So it's very slow. The advantage that Tor has, it's very popular in countries with repressive governments.
19:43:07 Because they can't tell what it is you're looking at. Because it never directly associates.
19:43:14 It can't be traced back to you. And that's one reason why the federal government.
19:43:20 Subsidizes it. And the last one is one of the oldest browsers out there.
19:43:26 Which is opera, which dates back to 1995. And opera is a. From a Norwegian term.
19:43:37 And it's a it's a nice browser, but it's also has some compatibility issues when people are building websites.
19:43:45 They tend to build them for Chrome and. And Safari and that's basically it.
19:43:53 Used to be it was Internet Explorer, Safari, and Chrome and now it's basically Safari and Chrome.
19:44:02 So having gone through a whole bunch of website, whole bunch of browsers in very little time telling you very little about them.
19:44:09 What should I think you should pay attention to? I think you should pay attention to Safari because it comes on your machine.
19:44:14 I think you should pay attention to Chrome. Because depending upon who's statistics you look at, it is the most popular.
19:44:23 Browser in the world. But when they're talking about that, they're basically looking at desktop users.
19:44:30 And I think you should play attention to Microsoft Edge. You'll notice that I didn't say Firefox.
19:44:36 But Microsoft Edge. Microsoft Edge, in spite of the fact that it's done by Microsoft, is really well, well done, it's very stable.
19:44:46 They keep it up to date. Really have no particular. Issues with it.
19:44:52 It's it's well done. It also allows you to if you want to click on these little things you can launch other Microsoft applications.
19:45:00 If you don't have other Microsoft applications, you probably don't care. But it's it's not a bad browser at all.
19:45:06 Chrome I like but I want to tell you the dangers of Chrome. Kathleen has a laptop with 16 GB of memory.
19:45:16 It's a, M 2 laptop. Yeah, it's an M 2 Apple laptop with 16 gigs of memory.
19:45:26 She has run out of space. I've run out of memory on the machine. It won't actually stop doing what it's doing.
19:45:32 It just gets slow. Because of Chrome. Every time you open up a tab in Chrome, it's about a gigabyte.
19:45:39 Memory is used. So if you have 16 times open you're using 16 GB worth of memory.
19:45:46 And it just it just uses up a staggering amount of memory. The other thing, the good news, bad news, you see these little icons across the top here.
19:45:56 Those icons are extensions. And the extensions allow you to do things like I can click this one and it will tell me the IP address of the, of my own IP.
19:46:09 And it's telling me that's my IP and all kinds of things like that. You may not ever need this, but I use these like this one is this thing here is giving me a source code listing of the page that I was just on.
19:46:23 And this one here tells me the. Technologies of various things. So I click on this and it tells me there's no deductible technologies.
19:46:34 If I go to. This one of a click on that technologies that lists all the different kind of technologies that go into creating this.
19:46:42 Website. This is useful for me because I build websites but the problem with a lot of these plugins is they make the browser slower.
19:46:52 So Chrome is actually faster if I got rid of all these. But since I use problem basically when I'm building websites, I kind of like them.
19:47:00 I just keep in mind that Chrome has some disadvantages in terms of. Of the memory usage and there are some.
19:47:11 Kind of iffy things about some of their privacy. They just got to find I don't remember how much money by the european union several 1 billion dollars for privacy settings in Chrome.
19:47:25 So I would suggest that you stick with Safari. Chrome if you have a need for it and try out Microsoft Edge you might like it.
19:47:35 Firefox. Even though they're no longer having their religious wars. If you just notice it, it takes quite a while for it to load and it just doesn't have any particularly redeeming features anymore.
19:47:48 And that was mostly me talking for. Some period of time. So let me stop talking and let me stop sharing and ask if there are any questions.
19:48:02 You want to know the record, the record number of browsers I've had at any one time is 56.
19:48:08 Wow.
19:48:08 But I was, I was being paid to. Do websites for the government at the time. So I had a I had a need.
19:48:16 I didn't even show you. There's a built in browser in, in terminal.
19:48:20 You can actually use terminal to go and and grab web pages. It's not really a web browser.
19:48:25 It's a it's a web It'll grab web pages, but it's not really a browser.
19:48:31 Any questions?
19:48:35 Okay, we're doing a quiz here. Is it safe to store passwords in your browser?
19:48:43 In the browser.
19:48:44 Yes, like you're at a website and in the browser says, do you want me to save your website, your password for this site?
19:48:51 And you say, yes or no? Is that safe?
19:49:01 Yes.
19:48:52 Well, I'm thinking that it's not saving it in the browser saving it in in my key chain And okay, so, so then it is safe, I would say.
19:49:05 No, it's not. It's not. For financial institutions. If you have a bank, type your password in every single time.
19:49:15 If you have, if you have a mutual fund, type your password in every single time.
19:49:21 2 things. One, I have a I have a retirement fund that's done by this, see, I in Florida, they changed their security system and didn't tell anyone.
19:49:37 And I found out about it because I went in there and typed in my password and it didn't work.
19:49:40 So I called up the head just helped us. I said, oh, didn't you get a message that we were changing our security system?
19:49:48 Yeah.
19:49:46 No, I didn't, But if my web browser had saved it, it just wouldn't have worked and I wouldn't have known why.
19:49:54 So there are good reasons to always type your password in to find financial institutions and not save them in your keychain.
19:50:01 The safety in your keychain and your housekeeper come in and you're vacuuming the floor and you left your computer on, your browser windows open, they can go to your bank and empty it.
19:50:09 Because it's built into the it's your browser kept it. So it's not good for anything that you spend money on so your PUD bill.
19:50:20 Save that you wanna save your PUD, password in the browser. Well, there.
19:50:26 They're not storing your money. You're giving them money. So PUD, maybe you can do that, but, anything that you're gonna spend money on generally or anything is saving money, don't start your password.
19:50:37 No.
19:50:38 But save it for things like the Washington Post, New York Times, the Ladies Home Journal, if I don't even know if they still exist, but anything that is that you have to have a password in order to to use their service but you're not having a financial transaction.
19:50:55 Yeah, you can save it in your in your key chain if you want to.
19:50:59 Okay, so what about if you're using your iPhone or your iPad and it's either facial RS recognition or fingerprint.
19:51:07 Is that okay?
19:51:11 Yeah.
19:51:09 Now that gets a little bit tricky. I'll give you an example that,
19:51:17 When they first came up with the, facial recognition. This, Apple engineer. I may have told this story already, this Apple engineer with had this game on his phone that is, that is four-year-old like to play five-year-old like to play.
19:51:32 And one morning he went to. Play the game but his father was still asleep. So kid came, grabs the phone.
19:51:40 Hold it for his father's face to wake up the phone and plays the game.
19:51:45 Smart kid.
19:51:48 If you have to type the password in, they can't do that. They can't take your finger and put it on the fingerprint bed.
19:51:56 They can't hold your phone up and unlock the phone. So the answer is, yeah, I'd still probably type it in.
19:52:03 Even on your phone.
19:52:08 Good to know.
19:52:11 Julie, are you asking something? Cause your, microphones off.
19:52:18 So, you did suggest using one password for money, accounts.
19:52:24 Actually, I put all my passwords in even ones that I don't care about well even ones that aren't dangerous like the New York Times is in my one password.
19:52:33 Why? Because I might be using a new browser and I can't remember the name of the of the New York Times.
19:52:38 Account so it'll It's in one password. I use it for everything.
19:52:43 So then if you're on, if you have your money password stored in one password and you go to your bank and you go into the user.
19:52:52 Can you just like click on it and it will come up? With one password or do you have to?
19:52:59 You, you, It's a little bit complicated, but yes, you can have one password enter the your password for you.
19:53:07 For certain types of things. It'll it'll use Safari to enter a password.
19:53:12 So you if you go to the bank then when password will open the account. And you don't actually have to look at it.
19:53:15 Okay.
19:53:18 Even though I still, as I mentioned, I prefer typing it in because if I type it in and it doesn't work, then that tells me that there's something wrong.
19:53:27 Whereas if it's unlocked by key chain or if it's unlocked by one password, it won't tell me what's wrong.
19:53:33 It's just, it's not working, but I don't know that the passwords the issue.
19:53:37 So I still for financial accounts. Even though one password has that as a service, I don't use that.
19:53:45 I always type it in. And you have to remember that I. I'm a professionally paranoid.
19:53:51 I not only created websites, but I also kept hackers out and. 25 years. Nobody got into my, websites and some of them got millions of hits an hour.
19:54:03 So, you know. Lot of exposure but they didn't get in because I'm paranoid.
19:54:08 Maybe sometime you could have a class on thinking up good passwords that you can remember.
19:54:15 Okay.
19:54:15 I will tell you it's very simple. Don't use passwords. Use pass phrases.
19:54:20 My passwords are When we move to the United, when we move back to Washington state, we're both from Washington state.
19:54:30 We move back here. Why do I listed the criteria that of things that I wanted? Where we moved, had to have volcanoes, had to have ocean, had to have ferry boats.
19:54:40 And so Kathleen promptly suggested New Zealand, which was a good suggestion because we both like New Zealand.
19:54:49 But, And. Volcano space, ferry, space. Ocean space. April is a good password.
19:55:01 It tells you. That you, you created in April, which means by next April you should probably change it.
19:55:08 And it's a lot of letters. And some of those have an uppercase long volcano.
19:55:14 It probably has a capital V and others a lowercase. What makes a password secure is 2 things.
19:55:21 First of all, it's your user name. And your password. If you think about it, if you have the right username, the wrong password, you can't get in.
19:55:29 But if you have the right password and you're using the wrong username you can't get in.
19:55:31 It takes both. So when you send this off, it sends off this really big number to the site saying, here's my really big number.
19:55:39 Does it patch, does it match the really big number that you have? And if it matches, then they let you in.
19:55:44 But it requires both the username and the password. So my username is not I don't have a username on anything that's just Lawrence.
19:55:54 It's something more complicated. It can be your first initial last name. It can be your first name in your last name.
19:55:59 It could be something, but it shouldn't be. It's it's not just Lawrence, it's something more than that.
19:56:05 And all of my past words are something more than that. And all of my past words are not past words or past phrases.
19:56:09 Okay.
19:56:10 This one guy who kept on forgetting his password at work I had it's a it's the name of Robert Frost.
19:56:18 His password because he kept on forgetting it, I made it stopping by woods on a snowy evening.
19:56:28 Okay.
19:56:25 Which is you might know was the poem that Robert Frost had at Kennedy's inauguration.
19:56:31 And he had to every day type that in. And he remembered it. In spite of the fact that it is quite long, but it was very secure and it was long.
19:56:40 Okay.
19:56:40 And length is what is important. You will, if you work for the government, say, has to have an upper case has to have a lowercase, has to have a special character, has to have a number, and so then you use a blank as a special character.
19:56:52 You say, nope, you can't use a blank. Yeah, you shouldn't put limitations on it.
19:56:55 Yeah.
19:56:58 And you can a lot of government passwords are insecure simply because they put so many restrictions on how to make the password, they're actually making it less secure.
19:57:07 But the length is not nearly as the complexity of the password is not nearly as is important as the length.
19:57:17 If you, I know a lot of people, they have a Google password than they have. 0, glee.
19:57:27 So they're typing Google but with zeros. They think they're so clever. No, that can be broken in a second.
19:57:31 A fraction of a second. But if they said, Google is run by billionaires. A great password.
19:57:37 It's long and it's complex.
19:57:41 Okay, thank you.
19:57:44 So don't worry about. Something that you can't remember, just worry about length.
19:57:51 Any other questions?
19:57:57 No other questions?
19:58:01 Oh. Yeah.
19:58:02 But, what was going to be?
19:58:05 So.
19:58:06 I, I wanna tell you something about why I think browsers in particular are important. The last month I worked for the government and I admittedly I used I made websites for a living.
19:58:19 The last month that I was at NOAA. I used my browser. 99% of the time that I was using the machine.
19:58:29 1% of the time I was using Excel. 99% I was using. A browser.
19:58:36 I didn't use word processor, sir, at all. When I did word processing, I actually did it in Google using my browser.
19:58:45 I didn't use, I used the spreadsheet because there's some things that might that Excel just does really well.
19:58:52 So I did use 1% of the time on Excel. The database I did using a browser, it's a cloud based database.
19:58:59 Browsers are incredibly important and powerful. And Don't. Don't discount when a lot of people say when I'm getting a new computer.
19:59:14 I don't need that much because all I do is web browsing. I just explained earlier that Google with 16 tabs open can use all of your memory in a 16 GB machine.
19:59:23 Their complex programs. Just web browsing is not is not an indication of not doing much. That's actually an indication of doing a lot.
19:59:32 You just personally aren't doing all the work the web browser is. So don't discount, web browsers and web browsing.
19:59:48 Google.
19:59:47 I have a question. Oh, go ahead.
19:59:51 Google is pretty invasive, isn't it? I mean like they've they're coming into my Apple calendar.
19:59:40 It's Very complex, very, very powerful and also potentially. Bye,
20:00:01 Now, I can't, you know. And things like that. I want to keep it as clean as I can.
20:00:08 There's. I have mixed feelings about Google. I use Google extensively.
20:00:15 I use their indexing services. I use their search engines. So on so forth. Am I afraid about if they're my privacy security with Google?
20:00:27 Okay.
20:00:25 No, because I'm also fairly paranoid about it. If Google is trying to put things in your calendar, it's probably because you're using a doctors service or something and it says can I add this appointment to your calendar and you say yes so it tries to stick a Google appointment into your calendar and sometimes it's entirely accidental or you just click on a link and it think oh you want to save that in your
20:00:50 calendar so that's not necessarily invasive so much as that is Google doing what it's designed to do.
20:00:56 It's designed, they have a calendar and
20:01:02 Yeah.
20:00:58 When I count, you know, you have Mike Allen and all these names and calendars and there's Google is in there.
20:01:06 Yes. But again, it's doing what it's, doing what it's supposed to be doing and Sometimes it, It might seem, but it's really doing what it's supposed to be doing.
20:01:19 Google mostly gets in trouble because of their advertising. If I am using I will go into. Amazon and I'll look up USB drives.
20:01:29 And then I'll go into Washington Post and there'll be an advertisement for USP drives for me on the Washington Post.
20:01:36 Why? It's because Amazon subscribes to a advertising service run by Google. And so when I was looking for USB drives on Amazon, Google says, oh, this guy wants USB drives.
20:01:49 I go into the Washington Post shows me USB prize. And yes, that is that is an issue, but I don't have to click on those ads.
20:01:59 Doesn't doesn't hurt me the fact that they're ignoring that they're there.
20:02:03 Kathleen will tell you I'm really good at agreeing advertising. There was this one commercial on TV.
20:02:07 So.
20:02:09 For this woman it was she was it was a body wash and about 98% of the woman's body at one time or another was exposed and she was demonstrating this body wash.
20:02:21 And Kathleen says that that's the only advertisement that she ever recalls me paying any attention to on TV.
20:02:26 Okay.
20:02:27 Because we're pretty immune to. To advertising. So you can just ignore the ads. That's not really what's invasive.
20:02:37 What's invasive? Are people using simple passwords and getting broken in and then saying oh they hacked my icloud account.
20:02:46 Now they didn't hack your account. You put something up so that the allowed somebody to guess what your password was.
20:02:51 Oh.
20:02:51 Or they they hack my Google account that they probably didn't hack your Google account that you probably put something up that allowed somebody guess what the password was.
20:03:00 Most alleged hacking accounts is the the user themselves was a little bit careless. So.
20:03:09 I'm hacking. I, I guess it's through notifications, so where that little window comes up there in your right.
20:03:17 Yes.
20:03:16 Upper corner. I am being hacked. You're, I clouded. Town is being hacked and all these it just as coming up every minute or so.
20:03:30 Oh, we've been sitting here. It's come, comes that. And And I go to notifications, of course nothing is in there, but it what how can I get this stopped?
20:03:40 This has been going on for a long.
20:03:40 If you're getting, you're getting no vacations like that, you probably have a JavaScript, you probably accepted a piece of JavaScript that's creating those on your machine.
20:03:49 So you're not being externally attacked, attacked. You're actually running the small program that's putting those up.
20:03:55 And they're trying to respond, right?
20:04:00 And I.
20:03:58 Yes, they're trying to get your respond. And the there is a way to have you fix that but you won't like it.
20:04:05 Okay.
20:04:05 And the way to do that is to go into your browser cache and completely empty the cache.
20:04:10 Why you won't like that is most people even though they say they don't save their passwords in their browser they really do and if you empty the cache it'll log you out of all those sites.
20:04:23 Okay.
20:04:22 And you'll have to remember what your password is and log back in again.
20:04:28 But it's probably something.
20:04:28 Of all the all the passwords you have on keychain, you would have to.
20:04:34 Not, it's not a key chain. When you log in to a site in, in Safari and it's saved in keychain, that's one thing, but it also remembers the next time you go there that you were logged in.
20:04:49 And so it just logs you and it back in again. But if you delete the cash, you'll have to log in fresh.
20:04:56 It doesn't erase it out of keychain, but you just have to type in your name and password.
20:05:01 Fresh again into everything.
20:05:01 One little, chain box will come up that's easy to do, right? Like click click.
20:05:08 Okay.
20:05:06 Yes, yes, but a lot of people never remember their password and they can't remember how to get back in.
20:05:12 Even if they've saved the password, they say, oh, I don't remember where my password is.
20:05:15 And most of the time I can look at somebody's machine long enough and I'll figure it out.
20:05:19 This one woman, she said she locked logged herself out of it. She she couldn't get back in her bang because she deleted the cash because she was afraid she was being hacked and she came back into her bank account.
20:05:31 So I went over and looked at her machine and in about 5 min I was back in again because yes she did save a record on your machine.
20:05:39 She just didn't know where to look to find it. And besides, if it push comes to shop, go down to the bank and they'll.
20:05:44 Tell you how to get back in.
20:05:48 Okay, we bought.
20:05:48 Banks really don't want you. Pardon?
20:05:53 We bought new iPhones about and they arrived about 3 weeks ago and they're still sitting here in the boxes because we don't know how to set them up.
20:06:02 And if there are new iPhones, you just the instructions, you just put them next to the old iPhone, make sure they're both turned on and they'll sit there and pass messages back and forth and ask you to do things.
20:06:13 And depending upon the speed of your internet, after a couple of hours it'll have taken everything up the old one.
20:06:19 Well, it's his way. You should know.
20:06:24 Yeah, I know.
20:06:28 But.
20:06:27 Is there anything we can do about that? I, my computer is so slow. And, and it's, it's old, I need a new one, I guess, but.
20:06:38 And you're talking about all these wonderful things and all this speed and everything, we have the sound.
20:06:44 You like Walter Matthew and that his movie and he had this The fancy. Sports car and he never could and shows them in miles and miles of New York traffic all the time.
20:06:57 Yeah. Yeah.
20:06:58 He's going in all the time to get the Because they were in the car and I feel that way with our computers.
20:07:06 Yeah.
20:07:06 And I, I don't know if it's our computer or it's a.
20:07:11 Probably a combination of both. This is my new iPhone. And I set it next to my old iPhone.
20:07:19 They asked me to do various things upon between the 2 of them and it took about 4 h to to transfer 130 GB worth of data from the old one to the new one.
20:07:29 Okay.
20:07:29 So I just sat there and let it do its thing overnight and it was happy.
20:07:34 Well.
20:07:34 Doing it like Bluetooth or is it doing it over Wi-Fi?
20:07:37 That does it over Wi-Fi.
20:07:40 I have a couple of questions.
20:07:42 Yes.
20:07:42 What can I do? . Yes
20:07:44 Yeah, did you want us to sign in? That's one. And.
20:07:47 I forgot to make, I forgot to make a sign in pad. So yes, that would have been a good idea, but I forgot to make one.
20:07:55 Thank you.
20:08:01 Yes, no, are we meeting in December is the question.
20:07:54 Okay, then who for sure we're not gonna meet. In December. Right. I say no.
20:08:07 I think the nose have it.
20:08:13 No.
20:08:13 You know.
20:08:07 Oh, all in favor of not meeting. Say no. No. Yeah.
20:08:14 Okay, that seems to cover it.
20:08:20 I have we got the
20:08:20 And I, I want, I wanna. And I wanna thank you Lawrence for covering opera.
20:08:32 Okay.
20:08:29 I use that whenever that was decades ago, 2 decades ago. And really enjoyed it. Was mollified when it didn't take off.
20:08:34 Did you put Oh, I see it.
20:08:41 Cause I was so tired of, I think we were still using Netscape.
20:08:43 There another one that's right.
20:08:47 At your dinner.
20:08:43 Yes. They were the first big competitor to Netscape. And it's still a nice, it's still a nice browser.
20:08:53 It's just not really necessary. Yes.
20:08:57 Yeah, and Lawrence. I need to run because I need to get to Costco before they close in 20 min.
20:09:05 Yeah.
20:09:05 Okay.
20:09:06 . That there anything we wanted to talk about elections or before I I'd like to log off
20:09:14 Now go ahead, log off. We can do this via email.
20:09:17 And we do it. We'll see everybody in January. Okay. Okay.
20:09:21 Yeah, think about what you want to do in January. By the way, straight Mac does not do, driveway plowing.
20:09:30 So if it snows.
20:09:31 Yeah.
20:09:32 Wait don't do that.
20:09:34 Okay, well I wish everybody Merry Christmas happy Thanksgiving. Until we see each other in January.
20:09:40 Okay. Happy New Year.
20:09:43 Yeah, I had to help you. Okay, everybody have a good one.
20:09:48 Any questions for we longer?
20:09:48 Bye. Hmm.
20:09:50 Yes.
20:09:48 Thanks. Where do you want us to post or send suggestions for? Meeting topics.
20:09:56 I'll send them to the. Vice president account straight back vice president account yes.
20:10:04 Go ahead with your question.
20:10:05 Okay.
20:10:07 The phones that we bought is the, the 15 pro max. And our old phones are 6 plus.
20:10:11 Yes.
20:10:14 Ex s plus
20:10:16 Oh!
20:10:21 Well, that is. I'm more of a challenge. Okay.
20:10:27 Okay.
20:10:27 We switch from 8 to 15 pro maxes and No problem whatsoever, so I'm guessing the sixes will be the same.
20:10:37 It did just like yours, as you put them inside each other. They look at that pattern that they make and and then they just do their thing.
20:10:44 Well, except that if it's a 6 and not a 6 E, there was a, there was a, there was a Nex, R 6 S, the 6, I don't know if it can do.
20:10:52 6 plus.
20:10:54 6 plus. Okay, that might work. So just do what he suggested. Get just if you turn it on, it'll give you instructions on.
20:11:04 Well, first thing to do is make sure they're plugged in. And they have power so they can do this sort of stuff but.
20:11:07 Yep.
20:11:10 Just turn on the.
20:11:10 Make sure she does a current backup.
20:11:17 Yay. Yeah, that's a good idea.
20:11:20 Maybe 6.
20:11:25 Perfect backup. What does that mean?
20:11:25 Yeah. Back it up to icloud, make sure that everything on the phone is backed up to icloud.
20:11:33 And if your icloud account doesn't have enough room, then Well, add more stuff to your icloud account.
20:11:42 It's easier to restore from icloud that it is to try and transfer it direct from one phone to another.
20:11:50 So it's
20:11:50 Okay, have a quick question. How am I gonna talk? This, There's no card.
20:12:02 Yes.
20:12:05 Okay.
20:12:03 So I have to go to my. The yeah, Consumer cellular to see if they Well, let me use the.
20:12:16 For the phone connection.
20:12:19 They should. Because what the ESM does, the only thing it does is gets rid of the mechanical.
20:12:30 Okay.
20:12:25 The physical SIM is still works electronically the same way. So, but I have no experience with consumer cellular.
20:12:34 I just know that from an engineering standpoint should make a difference.
20:12:38 Okay, thank you.
20:12:42 Anyway. With that, then I wish you all a good night.
20:12:48 Thank you. Thank you very much.
20:12:49 Okay.
20:12:49 Thank you.